Compiling board posts into a coherent article

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Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Blake_T » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:50 pm

for those who have or haven't followed my writings over the years, these past 6-7 weeks or so worth of my posts are probably the best things i have ever written on the subjects (primarily snap) and the people i have worked with for years tend to agree with that.

i'm way too f'n lazy to actually sit down and pound out a 10 page article on snap, but all the material is out there.

for those that aren't familiar w/ the "distance secrets" article, that was compiled by someone based on 40+ pages worth of a thread on the old pdga.com board (i was lucky enough to be a part of the Q&A).

i'm basically looking for something similar to that to be done with the stuff i have posted over the past 2 months across various threads. i tried to start new threads when introducing a new concept even though the basic ideas and materials were the same in order to keep a thread from going 40+ pages and having tons of backlogging.

if you would be interested in taking a stab at it, please let me know. the finished product would be posted on the main site as an article and we'd get joint credits.

i know this is a pretty big task and i might even be willing to have several people work on their own interpretation of it and post all of them. i can help a bit during the refining/proofing phase. you can make it as short or as long as you want to. e.g. if you just wanted to compile an article on the "pen drill" and what can be learned by it, that would be fine.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Parks » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:32 am

The disc golf wiki that was linked to by someone on the forums a few months back would probably be a good place to draw up the important information in one place before merging it all into an article.

I think that site is severely underused.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby JR » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:40 am

I'm leaving on a DG trip to Sweden today but lets work something out later when I get back if you're not inundated with help by then ;-) How should we go about writing the article?
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Blake_T » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:49 am

i actually think it would be most beneficial as a whole if people made their own interpretations of things.

when people find a way to understand it in their own way, it often is the most beneficial overall. i can only come up with 74 ways to describe the same thing, and sometimes the 75th way is the key for someone to have it "click."

since everyone understands things differently, i thought it might be interesting to see what people were able to garner from it. i'd be willing to guess that most people will highlight different primary points.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby JR » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:14 am

Could you post topics you want people to cover?

Maybe if there are more people we could share the workload so that nobody needs to write a book. Smaller bits for any single author could lower the workload thus recruit more knowledgeable people. Since the workload won't take up too much time. And if the material needs more perspectives and wording in different ways we can append other ways to describe things from other writers later if there seems to be demand for it.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Mark Ellis » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:53 am

Blake,
You write as a scientist or engineer. But many of your readers don't have that background and probably miss much of what you are explaining. I know I do.

So for writing purposes your ghost writer/collaborator should be someone who has a background in science and the ability to break down and explain the technical terms used. And the patience to do this. In addition, drafts should be tested on different players to see how much they are actually absorbing.

The greater need is for you to do videos. The easiest way to understand motion is to watch it.

Imagine if I wanted to explain to someone how to tie a necktie. A hundred thousand words, carefully and skillfully chosen would be inferior to a simple video showing how to do it for most interested learners.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby MrScoopa » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:37 am

The Blake_T\masterbeato\Bradley\JR\JHern\??? combo has helped it get through my thick skull. I think it comes down to someone getting it that thinks similar to yourself. Someone who has went through the same problems as you. That'd be JHern for me. He helped me find the pieces that I was missing THEN the writings of everyone else started making literal sense. Before it was like I was reading about some mystical force!

Me and brother think a lot alike. When I started getting it I told him the things I was doing and shazzam he understood and did it. He was missing different pieces of the puzzle though. He had a great follow through, was using his lower body, but he wasn't pulling tight and was at a constant speed.

I've spent hours scouring this forum, so i'd be willing to help.

Here's something that will help others. It's a google custom search for dgr:

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=00518 ... buwkceifi0
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Blake_T » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:04 am

The Blake_T\masterbeato\Bradley\JR\JHern\??? combo has helped it get through my thick skull. I think it comes down to someone getting it that thinks similar to yourself. Someone who has went through the same problems as you. That'd be JHern for me. He helped me find the pieces that I was missing THEN the writings of everyone else started making literal sense. Before it was like I was reading about some mystical force!


i agree here, which is why i was kind of looking for people to summarize their takes on it. it could basically be a copy/paste with some editing and transition sentences and their own descriptions added as well.

You write as a scientist or engineer. But many of your readers don't have that background and probably miss much of what you are explaining. I know I do.

So for writing purposes your ghost writer/collaborator should be someone who has a background in science and the ability to break down and explain the technical terms used. And the patience to do this. In addition, drafts should be tested on different players to see how much they are actually absorbing.


my early articles were very feel-oriented. my writings for a couple of years got more scientific, but as a whole, i've tried to find a balance: explaining what happens and then coming up with a variety of feel-based methods to help facilitate those actions.

i don't think having someone throw a pen and observe their own finishing mechanics is very scientific. the main thing i have come to learn over the years is that worrying only about the science and perfect positions doesn't do much in the greater scheme of things compared to throwing with specific intent.

most of the topics i write about has been broken down in detail with explanation of technical terms in previous writings. e.g. i don't feel like explaining what OAT is for the 120th time every time i write about it.

everyone reaches understanding in their own way.

The greater need is for you to do videos. The easiest way to understand motion is to watch it.

Imagine if I wanted to explain to someone how to tie a necktie. A hundred thousand words, carefully and skillfully chosen would be inferior to a simple video showing how to do it for most interested learners.


with the topic of snap, which has been what i have been writing about most lately wouldn't benefit from a video because the people who don't get it don't know what to look for. the people that do get it, see it, but there has to be a way to bridge the gap conceptually. anyone who wants to see video of big snap simply has to be buy a DVD with kallstrom, feldberg, jenkins, brinster, etc. and watch that for hundreds of hours. they can slow it down, frame by frame it, capture still images, etc. but unless you have a basic understanding of flow, it won't do much for them. basically, with snap, there isn't anything you can really see unless you already know what it looks like.

my process is like saying the wrist has to open. then saying how the wrist opens, it opens because the forearm stops moving forwards (due to directional change). the people who have the potential to "get it" (the concept) are defined at this point. the guys who can get it will stand up and start swinging their arm, trying to see the forearm "stop" and the wrist extending. the guys who won't get it are the ones that either don't try to understand it or can't make this happen.

the next step is to integrate that into the throw, and so on (although these steps eliminate roughly 90% of the remaining players).


personally i think with tying a necktie, a video does better since there's no required timing component, no "trick" or feel needed, you just perform a set of actions at your own pace and under no time constraint. what about splitting firewood? show 2 videos of 1 guy who understands how to swing an axe powerfully and 1 guy who doesn't and there isn't much to look at without a conceptual backing for it. watching hitters in baseball, seeing guys that can drive it vs. slap it, watching a boxing match and being able to tell if a punch probably did real damage or not, etc. aren't things that the untrained eye can usually see.

keep in mind what i'm trying to teach here are not the basics. the basics have been documented in video already and written about time and time again.

i'm going for the most intricate of nuances, the hardest thing to "get" in disc golf, which is, big snap. right now there's guys who got it naturally and there's a slew of guys who'll never get it (the uncoachables). the smallest demographic by far are those who didn't get it naturally but were able to work their way to it.

basically, my goal is to find a method to achieve 1% success with getting people to learn to throw with snap (up from 0.1%).

i think something like this is more like learning a hard guitar solo or a difficult piano piece than tying a necktie. you can memorize what notes it should be, but then you just now what notes it needs. you can buy a steve vai video and watch him and his 10" fingers play it, mimicking his body and hand positions before finding out that you can't just copy him since your fingers are 5" long.

those who have learned a tough guitar solo know the process:
break it down into phrasings. learn the notes. find the basic positions. find a way to play through the notes in a manner that fits your hand. practice at a slow speed (whatever the fastest speed is you can do it at). gradually increase speed as you get more comfortable with it. learn how to transition to the next phrasing.

i see a disc golf throw in a similar light. if it was easy to do, everyone would be doing it perfectly. similarly, there aren't a lot of good guitar players out there since most people aren't disciplined enough to cover the process i listed above.

that being said, there are a handful of people that become good guitar players because of the process i listed above, and their disc golf equivalents are whom i would target with this article.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Jeronimo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:30 am

Blake_T wrote:i'm way too f'n lazy to actually sit down and pound out a 10 page article on snap, but all the material is out there.


Based off some of our PM's and the knowledge that you were also PMing others at the same time, the above is most certainly NOT true. :lol:
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby black udder » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:47 am

Jeronimo wrote:
Blake_T wrote:i'm way too f'n lazy to actually sit down and pound out a 10 page article on snap, but all the material is out there.


Based off some of our PM's and the knowledge that you were also PMing others at the same time, the above is most certainly NOT true. :lol:


He means *again* :)
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby black udder » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:50 am

Blake - is there anyway to provide the text to edit/compile to somebody or is going into the threads the only way? Do we have any specific threads in mind? I've read some really good stuff from you, as you said, but damned if I can recall where the hell it was.

I'd also add that Dan was hoping to put some new video together. If he does that, it might be really good to sort of take the written words and combine them with his video so that we sort of have "we discussed this and here's what it looks like" stuff.

Of course, I don't know what Dan's timetable is either. If I felt I had a proper understanding I might try it, but I haven't seen huge leaps in distance, so I can't say.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby patdabunny » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:34 am

Mark Ellis wrote:The greater need is for you to do videos. The easiest way to understand motion is to watch it.


+1x10^6 :mrgreen:

I would garner a HUGE amount more than just reading it. I know others would as well.

Maybe a video of someone doing something horribly (like myself, ahem) and point out what they're doing wrong vs someone with great form and explain and point out what they're doing right with backup and validation from all the advice you have. I think it would make a very powerful thing.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby Leopard » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:36 am

visuals with Poser -- contrast right way and wrong way = the ticket


... only thing is it's more of a time investment than 10 pages of editing and revision
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby AciDBatH666 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:40 am

if JR writes it, it's gonna be as long as the OJ legal case.
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Re: Compiling board posts into a coherent article

Postby USAnarchy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:21 pm

What needs to happen first, before any video is filmed, is to get all the knowledge into one repository or article.

Then, once you have the flow of information right, you could have certain people film different aspects of the article either with simple footage of that certain aspect being performed, or have footage of the verbal and visual together.

The key is that the written portion has links for the individual footage. Too often, people try to jam as much info into a video that it becomes over whelming to the viewer. Sure they should rewind and re-watch. repeatedly. over and over. until it bleeds and you have nightmares about it.

but i do digress. people just aren't like that. by writing a clear and concise article, and having smaller clips interspersed to show the point at hand (lets say wrist open) then the reader doesn't get overwhelmed.

this is from feedback of people i send to this site to view videos and articles. they claim that they are hit with too much information sometimes.
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