Working Stiff's Bag

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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Working Stiff » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:28 am

So lets say hypothetically I got a 166 g Star Roadrunner and field tested it for about four days. Lets also say (hypothetically) that it didn't really go any farther than a Comet.

How bad is that?

Hypothetically, of course.
Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Monocacy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:13 am

Hey, throwing discs is always good.

What flight did you (hypothetically) get from the Roadrunner? Did it stall, turn over, or fly straight? How high were the (hypothetical) throws at the apex?

Drivers are more sensitive to nose angle than midranges, so if the Roadrunner stalled that would tell you (hypothetically, of course) that you may have nose-up issues. Have you tried throwing the Roadrunner on a lower (hypothetical) line compared with the Comet?

One other thought: sometimes I try to strong-arm discs that are "supposed" to go further rather than staying relaxed and accelerating at the end of the throw. Presumably you are throwing the Comets with late acceleration, so perhaps you need to throw the (hypothetical) Roadrunner the same way, but with more nose down.

For what it is worth, I occasionally backhand a Comet or Buzzz as far as my usual Valkyrie throws, usually when I throw the midranges on a fairly high line and get a full S-curve flight. I have also found that a slower driver like an XL flies about as far as my Valkyries, but it takes a higher line.

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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Working Stiff » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:54 am

Nose up is always an issue for me, but when I do that I know what I did wrong. So far as testing a disc I discount those throws since it's my own ineptitude.

I suppose the Roadrunner wasn't terrible and I can keep working with it. I might be throwing it too low, which I do a lot overcompensating for the nose up problem. A few times it seemed to still have some momentum left but I had it too close to the ground so it really didn't get a chance to glide much.

Really I just keep reading all these "Wow, I just tried a (insert big winged disc here) and it added 30' to my throws" posts and I'm getting tired of having to actually work at disc golf. It would be nice if I could buy that easy 30' with a disc. It's just not happening.
Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby mattw » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:10 am

Working Stiff wrote: Really I just keep reading all these "Wow, I just tried a (insert big winged disc here) and it added 30' to my throws" posts and I'm getting tired of having to actually work at disc golf. It would be nice if I could buy that easy 30' with a disc. It's just not happening.


This has been my problem no matter what long distance driver I try it doesnt help. I have tried a ton of long distance drivers from the Valk to the Wraith and they are no longer than my Eagle X. So I gave up on them and now I just carry fairway drivers for all distance shots. I do not posses the power to throw them so I am not going to bother. What realy hurt was tyring the OLS and thinking I was getting more distance. I then spent time of a football field to get a feel for my actual distance. Talk about deflating ones ego that hurt.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby jubuttib » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:07 pm

Discing up only leads to more distance if you're already pushing the slower discs to somewhere around their limits. For most of last year I was throwing everything pretty much the same distance (well, except putters), the slower drivers just being more controllable (in the sense that I could do other things besides going left with them, RHBH). Only when my distance increased did I start seeing real differences between drivers.

Getting longer always takes work. Distance between discs only increases when you can overall push them longer. The only magical tool that gives instant distance without added effort is the Aerobie Pro Ring.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby rehder » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:21 pm

Working Stiff wrote:Nose up is always an issue for me, but when I do that I know what I did wrong. So far as testing a disc I discount those throws since it's my own ineptitude.

I suppose the Roadrunner wasn't terrible and I can keep working with it. I might be throwing it too low, which I do a lot overcompensating for the nose up problem. A few times it seemed to still have some momentum left but I had it too close to the ground so it really didn't get a chance to glide much.

Really I just keep reading all these "Wow, I just tried a (insert big winged disc here) and it added 30' to my throws" posts and I'm getting tired of having to actually work at disc golf. It would be nice if I could buy that easy 30' with a disc. It's just not happening.


Ya, I keep reading them too, and 3 out of 4 are BS. Its because a lot of the people on dgr nowadays are starting to subscribe to the latest and greatest. Reason you can tell its a stretch is that the flightlines they are reporting often sound like they are barely/if at all reaching the discs cruising speed. Blake is still pretty spot on when he says that very few people are breaking 425 consistently and on demand, at least from my own observations here in Europe. (Even at the Copenhagen Open that was just played, I would say that there where maybe 6-7 guys that could throw 425+ on demand. Maybe a few more that could break 400, but the vast majority where under 400. (And Im not talking distancelines with windassisted downhill grades that are paced off, which I think is a prevalent phenomena when people are reporting throwing distances on the internet.) This is easiest to see in the vid critique section, where you can see peoples throwing technique. Often these dont seem correspond with distances achieved. Now Im not very good at diagnosing a throw, but I generally can see when somebody is "hitting" it well. Im pretty sure Blake would be able to call the distances the throws in the vids withing 30'.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Working Stiff » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:58 pm

rehder wrote:
Working Stiff wrote:Nose up is always an issue for me, but when I do that I know what I did wrong. So far as testing a disc I discount those throws since it's my own ineptitude.

I suppose the Roadrunner wasn't terrible and I can keep working with it. I might be throwing it too low, which I do a lot overcompensating for the nose up problem. A few times it seemed to still have some momentum left but I had it too close to the ground so it really didn't get a chance to glide much.

Really I just keep reading all these "Wow, I just tried a (insert big winged disc here) and it added 30' to my throws" posts and I'm getting tired of having to actually work at disc golf. It would be nice if I could buy that easy 30' with a disc. It's just not happening.


Ya, I keep reading them too, and 3 out of 4 are BS. Its because a lot of the people on dgr nowadays are starting to subscribe to the latest and greatest. Reason you can tell its a stretch is that the flightlines they are reporting often sound like they are barely/if at all reaching the discs cruising speed. Blake is still pretty spot on when he says that very few people are breaking 425 consistently and on demand, at least from my own observations here in Europe. (Even at the Copenhagen Open that was just played, I would say that there where maybe 6-7 guys that could throw 425+ on demand. Maybe a few more that could break 400, but the vast majority where under 400. (And Im not talking distancelines with windassisted downhill grades that are paced off, which I think is a prevalent phenomena when people are reporting throwing distances on the internet.) This is easiest to see in the vid critique section, where you can see peoples throwing technique. Often these dont seem correspond with distances achieved. Now Im not very good at diagnosing a throw, but I generally can see when somebody is "hitting" it well. Im pretty sure Blake would be able to call the distances the throws in the vids withing 30'.
So...I should just find a big elevated tee with a tailwind, let the Roadrunner fly and exaggerate how far it went? I can do that if it will help my social acceptance here. :wink:
Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby jubuttib » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:13 pm

I'd hope the fact you admitted you can't throw would help you acceptance more than anything. By the way, do you have a video of your throw up anywhere?
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Working Stiff » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:06 am

No, I really don't have a video. I might have to break down and try that.

After an awful spring, the summer was decent. Inconsistent but decent. I settled into a bag that worked alright. I managed to win the B Flight of our summer league, so I was hanging in with the hackers. My distance is still pathetic, but I was good enough with my short game to cover. That's how it has always been, probably how it will always have to be.

Distance Drivers
(2) DX TeeBirds, 166-170g
Stable Control Drivers
(1) ESP Cyclone, 168g
(1) Tournament Cyclone, 170g
Understable Driver
(1) Beat 150 Class Tournament Cyclone, 147g
Moderately Overstable Driver
(1) DX Banshee, 163g
Mids:
(1) 11X KC Roc 177g
(1) DX Rancho Roc, 177g
(2) DX Ontario Rocs, 168g
(1) Sentinel MF (Millennium plastic), 176g
Putters:
(1) DX Small Bead Aviar Putt & Approach,172g
(1) DX Big Bead Aviar (grid stamp) 172g
(1) 9X KC Pro Aviar, 172g

Most rounds I threw the ESP Clone, the 11X Roc and the 9X Aviar. I found myself throwing the Cyclone in a lot of places where I should have thrown the Roc, but I was getting good results from it so I kept doing it. The TeeBird comes in handy in a headwind. I had a Zephyr that I carried for a lot of the summer as well, but I gave it to an old guy who was trying to one-disc with a TeeRex.
Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby mattw » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:18 am

I like the bag its a nice clean set up. I havent tried TP Cyclones I have been tempted to pick up a few. Marshallstreet has quite a few tourney stamped ones that the date on them would make me think they are TP.
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In defense of the Roc

Postby Working Stiff » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:01 pm

This Roc has to come out of my bag:
Image
I bought this disc in 1995. I had a Wall City cube bag with no framework. The only way the bag held any shape was to stuff it full of discs. I knew I didn't like Rocs, but it was just a filler disc to keep the bag full and it was a different color than the Spitfire I was throwing. Great purchasing strategy, eh? At some point I started throwing another Roc I won at a tournament, and this one was nice for turnovers since it 167g. It has managed to hang around as my turnover Roc since then.

It's almost winter. The Roc is DX and 15 years old. It's time for it to sit on a shelf until it warms up.

Because of that, I'm going to try a Roc/Comet combo. I remember really, Really, REALLY hating the Roc/Comet combo when I tried it before, but I don't remember exactly why other than I was always second-guessing myself on what I should throw. Anyway, a Z Comet has a better chance of making through the winter than my old Rocs, so I'll give it a whirl.

It's been very windy, so I went back to Wizards. I also decided to go with an XD for now. It's a really easy to throw disc for short turnovers, and I don't have a good feel for that shot with a Wizard. I was messing around with some Roadrunners and Avenger SS's trying to buy some distance, but the wind is blowing them around something awful. They are still in the practice stack. I have an X Avenger that is a lot better in the wind that might actually make the bag with a bit more work.

So I'm going to try this for a bit:

Distance Drivers
(2) DX TeeBirds, 166-170g
Stable Control Drivers
(1) ESP Cyclone, 168g
(1) Tournament Cyclone, 170g
Understable Driver
(1) Beat 150 Class Tournament Cyclone, 147g
Moderately Overstable Driver
(1) DX Banshee, 163g
Mids:
(1) 11X KC Roc 177g
(1) 12X KC Roc, 175g
(1) DX Rancho Roc, 177g
(2) Z Comets, 171-173g
(1) X Comet 177g
Putters:
(2) Medium Wizards,172-175g
(1) DX XD 168g
Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Working Stiff » Mon May 09, 2011 8:23 pm

So way back when in '96 or so Dave McCormack looked in my bag and gave me a big ration of shit for having too many molds. His basic point was the minimalist idea that I was walking around with a bunch of disc and really didn't know what any of them would do when I should carry a handful of discs and learn to make them do everything. He reached in and pulled out an XD and said "You don't need this." Then he pulled out an Aviar and said "You can do anything with this that you could do with that (meaning the XD) and more."

It made sense. I switched my bag over to five, then four molds. The XD didn't make the cut, so I stopped throwing them.

I've struggled for years with short turnover shots. I've got super-beat Aviars and Wizards that should be fine for those shots, but I've never seemed to consistently get them to work. This has been going on for years. Last Summer I was Superclassing a lot, and I noticed that a few upshots that I had a lot of trouble with throwing a beat Wizard or Aviars were super easy with a Zephyr. For a little bit I carried the Zephyr during regular rounds, but it was a pain to fit in the bag. I started looking for a regular golf-sized disc I could use for those touch approach shots.

Enter the XD.

I've heard and repeated the "It's the archer, not the arrow" line a million times in the last 14 years, but damn is the XD easy to throw. Those turnover touch approach shots that I've struggled with for years are suddenly automatic.

Drivers
Distance Drivers
(1) Echo* Roadrunner 169g
(2) Champion Valkyrie 158-170g
Stable Control Drivers
(1) QJLS, 168g
Understable Driver
(1) Beat Pro D Cyclone, 168g
Overstable Driver
(1) Z Predator, 169g
Mids:
(1) 11X KC Roc 177g
(1) 12X KC Roc, 180g
(1) DX Rancho Roc, 176g
(2) DX Ontario Rocs 168g
Putters:
(1) Firm Ridge 175g
(1) DX XD 168g
Furthur wrote:Either get a lighter one, throw harder, or find a disc with more glide.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon May 09, 2011 9:27 pm

Mold minimalism works to a degree and I agree that the short turnover shot almost needs a specialty disc. It was one I struggled with when I carried just wizards. Now that I have beat aviars they seem to hold that line better than wizards ever did.
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon May 09, 2011 9:43 pm

You what a good way to combat a troll is? to post an elephant crapping. Good call whathethinking

Anyway. yadda yadda, deleting dumb posts. yadda yadda
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Re: Working Stiff's Bag

Postby what'shisname » Mon May 09, 2011 10:28 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:You what a good way to combat a troll is? to post an elephant crapping. Good call whathethinking

Anyway. yadda yadda, deleting dumb posts. yadda yadda


So that's a no on the picture post feature then? Bummer. I guess ignoring it is.
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