Which one is in?

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Which one is in?

Postby ziggy » Wed May 19, 2010 7:34 am

Image

Let's discuss :)
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed May 19, 2010 7:56 am

All but the yellow one.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby JackMontana » Wed May 19, 2010 8:00 am

If they're all at rest then all except the yellow meet rule 803.13B and are 'holed out' :

B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed.

The yellow one is hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section

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Re: Which one is in?

Postby veganray » Wed May 19, 2010 8:01 am

As the yellow one seems to be partially (albeit ever so slightly) supported by the chains, as well, I would call it in.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby ChUcK » Wed May 19, 2010 8:40 am

veganray wrote:As the yellow one seems to be partially (albeit ever so slightly) supported by the chains, as well, I would call it in.



It could be just because the red disc is pushing the chain out to meet the yellow one, but in this case I would have to put on my lawyer face and say that veganray is correct. Has anybody ever seen a disc come to rest hanging like that?
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby A.Mutt » Wed May 19, 2010 8:55 am

ChUcK wrote:
veganray wrote:As the yellow one seems to be partially (albeit ever so slightly) supported by the chains, as well, I would call it in.



It could be just because the red disc is pushing the chain out to meet the yellow one, but in this case I would have to put on my lawyer face and say that veganray is correct. Has anybody ever seen a disc come to rest hanging like that?


Can't say I've ever seen that happen. In fact the only one of those I have seen is a disc wedged in the side of the basket.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby AciDBatH666 » Wed May 19, 2010 9:40 am

I've actually had a putt teeter totter like the one all the way to the left.

I wanna know how the hell do you get a disc to do what that white roc is doin?
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby mobster » Wed May 19, 2010 9:48 am

ChUcK wrote:
veganray wrote:As the yellow one seems to be partially (albeit ever so slightly) supported by the chains, as well, I would call it in.



It could be just because the red disc is pushing the chain out to meet the yellow one, but in this case I would have to put on my lawyer face and say that veganray is correct. Has anybody ever seen a disc come to rest hanging like that?


Vegan Ray is not correct solely due to the fact that the rules state "excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section." If the rules did not specifically call out that you could argue that it's being supported by the chains.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby UpFromTheAshes » Wed May 19, 2010 10:11 am

I don't understand the logic behind the rule. Why is it ok for a disc to be hanging from the bottom of the basket, but not ok to be hanging from the top of the basket? What kind of sense does that make? IMO, if the disc comes to rest being supported by any part of the basket in any way, it should be good.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby juju » Wed May 19, 2010 11:13 am

UpFromTheAshes wrote:IMO, if the disc comes to rest being supported by any part of the basket in any way, it should be good.


That is too logical for the PDGA...

I overheard some of the possible changes for the next rules update and almost threw up.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby veganray » Wed May 19, 2010 12:10 pm

mobster wrote:
ChUcK wrote:
veganray wrote:As the yellow one seems to be partially (albeit ever so slightly) supported by the chains, as well, I would call it in.



It could be just because the red disc is pushing the chain out to meet the yellow one, but in this case I would have to put on my lawyer face and say that veganray is correct. Has anybody ever seen a disc come to rest hanging like that?


Vegan Ray is not correct solely due to the fact that the rules state "excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section." If the rules did not specifically call out that you could argue that it's being supported by the chains.

You could still argue that. When a rule is self-contradictory, arguments for either outcome are equally valid (and equally invalid). A fundamental tenet of logical thought.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby veganray » Wed May 19, 2010 12:12 pm

UpFromTheAshes wrote:if the disc comes to rest being supported by any part of the basket in any way, it should be good.

Should a disc laying on the base of a portable basket be good? Or a disc that comes to rest on the lock of the sleeve, wholly supported by the lock bezel (part of the basket)? How 'bout one that comes to rest hanging from the bolt that connects the bottom of the disc-catching bucket to the pole?
Last edited by veganray on Wed May 19, 2010 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby curt » Wed May 19, 2010 12:22 pm

I think the logic behind the decisions about when a disc is considered in or not is pretty sound. The rules are based on the premise that the goal is to hit the chains and land supported by either the chains or the lower entrapment device. For every disc in that picture, except for one, the disc would have had to hit the target area, and come to rest supported by some part of the target area. The original premise of the rules states that top of the basket is not part of the area a disc golfer is attempting to hit. So, if a disc comes to rest on top of the basket, then the player has not satisfied to goal of hitting the target area and does not get credit for doing so.

While some of the wacky examples given in the photo do not actually require you to hit the target area, the rules are written to give the player the benefit of the doubt in an instance where the player can't see the basket.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby UpFromTheAshes » Wed May 19, 2010 12:48 pm

veganray wrote:
UpFromTheAshes wrote:if the disc comes to rest being supported by any part of the basket in any way, it should be good.

Should a disc laying on the base of a portable basket be good? Or a disc that comes to rest on the lock of the sleeve, wholly supported by the lock bezel (part of the basket)? How 'bout one that comes to rest hanging from the bolt that connects the bottom of the disc-catching bucket to the pole?


Yes. If the disc is not touching the ground, and is being supported above the ground by any part of the basket assembly, then it should be good.

In ball golf, the ball is either in the hole or it's not. In disc golf, the disc should be either A) laying on the ground, or B) being supported by the basket.
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Re: Which one is in?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Wed May 19, 2010 12:57 pm

It was a challenge doing that photo since it was breezy and I was by myself. I realized afterwards that I didn't show the classic DROT sitting flat on top. But the yellow disc hanging on the side was a cooler looking DROT. Even though it looks like the yellow disc might be touching chains, it was not. I agree the weirdest one is the white disc up under the chain support and I have no idea how it would get there unless the disc came in high and bounced up from hitting the chain ring perhaps. The Zephyr hanging outside the basket was actually taped there because, if you look close, it's the old style Mach III basket where the vertical nub wires were welded sideways on the inside. The current Mach baskets have the wire coming from the outside and hooking like finger over the circular top wire pointing toward the pole. Discs can actually hang outside the basket on those without any tape assist.
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