Tuning a disc

[Parks]

There was a thread derailment in a thread in the Equipment section, so I thought I would bring up the topic here.

Is tuning a disc PDGA legal? Not just bending a disc that tacos on a tree back to its original form, but tuning a new or used disc to fly differently by bending the wing up or down, or applying pressure to the dome.

[black udder]

Sounds like a question for Chuck!

I'd say no - I believe it says no modification of the disc, but I believe that was from cutting, sanding, etc. I don't believe folding was an issue.

[homebrew]

Should be able to bend a disc all you want.

[veganray]

That may be your personal philosophy, but the PDGA rule (802.01A) is crystal clearly in opposition to your desire:

Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks.

[Timko]

But tuning a disc back to the original flight characteristics would not be illegal by pdga rules.

[veganray]

I tend to concur.

[Timko]

I think the rule should be amended to specifically allow tuning. I get the point of not being able to factor discs or cut a hole in the middle or something, but proving someone tuned a disc is nearly un-enforceable.

[veganray]

Slippery slope. Where does the org draw the line? I have several PDGA-legal discs that are so floppy I could "origami-tune" them into a ball & perform sweet bocce rollers or baseball-throw putts with them. (Quite likely not what the founders intended for the sport.) I do not do so only because there exists a rule that specifically prohibits me.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I believe the brute force method of "tuning" has been allowed over the years, having done it myself with some too stable production DX Rocs, i.e. throwing a DX disc into a wall several times to adjust the flight characteristics. Doing it more "scientifically" like maybe putting a wide winged disc into a vise and "tuning it" would be frowned upon if proven.

[veganray]

Just because it has done (even by a Hall-of-Fame-caliber PDGA apologist) does not make it legal. If the PDGA wants to allow it, it needs to craft a rule that doesn't clearly prohibit it (like 802.01A does), and be prepared to live with the unintended consequences, such as the simple, obvious one I have posted.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The discs were thrown in practice ("This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play...") and the changes occurred through normal wear and tear. No illegality noted from other Hall of Famers on Rules Committee and Tech Standards who have done similarly over the years, and in fact who I learned the technique from.

[veganray]

It's a game of honor, Chuckie-boy. If you (or the conveniently anonymous 'other Hall of Famers on Rules Committee and Tech Standards') can spit in the face of 802.01A, intentionally make post-production modifications to a disc that alter their original flight characteristics, hide behind a contrived definition of "wear and tear from usage during play" (how often are you executing the hard-as-you-can shot into a brick wall on the course?), and look your competitors in the eye on Sunday, that says as much or more about the poor construction of your character as the poor construction of the PDGA rules.

[Parks]

Slippery slope. Where does the org draw the line? I have several PDGA-legal discs that are so floppy I could "origami-tune" them into a ball & perform sweet bocce rollers or baseball-throw putts with them.

The line is drawn fairly simply. There are tech standards for legal discs, and I believe your "origami-tune" would take the disc outside of legal rim configuration ratings (or some other metric).

Just like normal wear and tear can cause a disc to get a hole in the flight plate, at which point it is no longer legal.

I don't think it hurts the honor of the game any more than breaking in an infielder's glove with oil, bending, and tying it closed with a ball inside hurts baseball's honor.

[veganray]

Tech standards also require a disc to have "have a circular, saucer-like configuration" (GUIDELINES & PROCEDURES FOR MANUFACTURERS TO CERTIFY THAT EQUIPMENT COMPLIES WITH PDGA TECHNICAL STANDARDS, Section I.C.1). Any tuning would cause an originally-circular disc to become deformed & non-circular. Therefore, tuning fails your newly-contrived rule, as well.

[veganray]

I don't think it hurts the honor of the game any more than breaking in an infielder's glove with oil, bending, and tying it closed with a ball inside hurts baseball's honor.

Hogwash! The breaking in of a baseball glove is not specifically prohibited in the rules of baseball, while a player's post-production modification of a disc that alters its original flight characteristics is specifically prohibited in the rules of disc golf.