Tuning a disc

Rules Discussion and General PDGA discussion.

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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Mark Ellis » Wed May 26, 2010 6:20 pm

Rules are not equal. Some are important, some are not. Most of us break the speed limit occasionally, few of us commit murder. Most of us have no problem distinguishing between important rules and non-important rules.

Disc golfers are usually a pretty tolerant group. Few things are sacred to us but our game, our courses and a sense of fairness about how we play the game come to mind. Most disc golfers compete with high moral standards, even if some rules are ignored or bent.

Those who commit to following all rules (and pride themselves on it, if not martyr themselves on it) and expect all others to follow their approach are prone to be disappointed with the world. OK.

But if all rules were important and someone was willing to try to enforce them, they would have an impossible task. How could a cop arrest all the speeders? How could a disc golfer assure every disc is legal? What if sandpaper were used more than moderately on some spot on some disc? What if that tree smack happened with the secret intent to break it in? What if someone wanted to call every foot fault in the lower Amateur divisions? OMG, really, think about this: What if every foot fault were called in the beginner divisions of tournaments?? How comical would that be? And how much good would be accomplished?

There are unwritten rules of life. You can generally break the speed limit by 5 to 10 miles per hour and not get pulled over, especially when you are moving with the flow of traffic and not blatantly endangering anyone's life and safety. In baseball the strike zone really doesn't go up as high as the rules claim. When turning the double play infielders get away with a phantom tag of second base. In the NBA, travelling rules are relaxed, unless you are a superstar, then they are mostly ignored. It does no good to pull out an official copy of the rules and quote chapter and verse. The unwritten rules take precedence. Sorry.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby mobster » Wed May 26, 2010 7:59 pm

Sweet, I can break all the rules now as long as I can find an unwritten rule that trumps the official rule. It's really sad to see the honest players with integrity getting penalized. Strike outs are called after three strikes in the youngest division of little league baseball and yet foot-faults shouldn't be enforced in the rec division of a tourney. Golf, whether it be ball or disc, is one of the few sports/activities where players police themselves and other players. Comparing golf to a sport like basketball where there is only 2 to 3 people that can call fouls/rule infractions is ridiculous. The mentality of "it's okay as long as I don't get caught" doesn't belong in disc golf, sports, or anywhere. The fact that this is mentality could be seen as the PDGA's stance should raise a few eyebrows.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Parks » Sat May 29, 2010 4:41 am

The Quest Wildfire is PDGA approved.

But which version? With the dome pressed in, or out? Is that tuning?
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby TobbeF » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:23 am

So judging from the above discussion, would I be correct in interpreting the PDGA interpretation of the rules as such that any intentional tear&wearing of a disc is allowed as long as I am throwing the disc at something in the process ("practise play"), while disallowed if I am still holding the disc in my hand (other than smoothening out scrape marks or molding imperfections such as flashing?)
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby mark12b » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:27 am

TobbeF wrote:So judging from the above discussion, would I be correct in interpreting the PDGA interpretation of the rules as such that any intentional tear&wearing of a disc is allowed as long as I am throwing the disc at something in the process ("practise play"), while disallowed if I am still holding the disc in my hand (other than smoothening out scrape marks or molding imperfections such as flashing?)

the rule only talks about how the disc flies as a result of your actions (whether or not it has its original flight characteristics), and does not really talk about how it got that way.

the rule does say natural wear and tear is allowable, so most folks feel that any sort of intentional tuning, if done at all, ought to be as "natural" as possible.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby TobbeF » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:59 am

mark12b wrote:
TobbeF wrote:So judging from the above discussion, would I be correct in interpreting the PDGA interpretation of the rules as such that any intentional tear&wearing of a disc is allowed as long as I am throwing the disc at something in the process ("practise play"), while disallowed if I am still holding the disc in my hand (other than smoothening out scrape marks or molding imperfections such as flashing?)

the rule only talks about how the disc flies as a result of your actions (whether or not it has its original flight characteristics), and does not really talk about how it got that way.

the rule does say natural wear and tear is allowable, so most folks feel that any sort of intentional tuning, if done at all, ought to be as "natural" as possible.


Well yes, I have never intentionally tuned a disc before and am not necessarily planning on doing so either since I too have been understanding rule 802.01A too be disallowing practices like throwing it into a wall (which I think does change the flight characteristics, and too me is not really a part of normal play). Now though that the consensus of this thread seems to be that this in fact is ok by the rules (either way is fine by me as long as I know which it is) then I would like to know what is ok and what is not in case a discussion of it comes up at the local club. :)
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby mark12b » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:41 pm

i think the meta-point of this thread is that with the rule written as-is, there will always be room for discussion, since it's somewhat open for interpretation.

i'm not sure that's a bad thing in this case, as it's a rule that, as mark pointed out, doesn't really give you an advantage if you break it (whether in letter or in spirit), and talking about this kind of stuff is generally healthy for golf. iow the vagueness of the rule leads to questions and discussions that players *ought* to have -- the fact that there's no clear-cut ruling means that players need to figure it out on their own: what is "OK" in terms of tuning and what isn't? the process of coming up with that answer is good for the player and the game as a whole. and again, the cool thing is that the answer can vary from player to player without really affecting scores in the long run (an artificially flippy disc isn't going to do anything a naturally flippy one can't do).
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby veganray » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:06 pm

Dude, I think you've just rather obliquely described the lack of moral absolutism that is one of the most virulent plagues on society today. Good to know that there's one more poor, lost soul who's 'part of the problem'.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby jubuttib » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:05 pm

Okay, I'll bite. Is the point that it's stupid to put rules that are pretty much unenforceable and rules that are silently allowed to be broken by the people who made said rules in the rulebook, and that said rules/wordings should either be changed to reflect what the rules are really supposed to combat against (for example putting additional weights, wedges etc. on the discs or completely modifying the shape by adding or subtracting material from the disc?) and allow bending and throwing the disc against a wall, or everyone should just suck it up and use the rules as written?

Banging a disc against a wall and skipping it on the pavement with the intention of beating it in faster is by no means normal wear and tear, and it's also impossible to enforce, since the same damage could come from normal playing, just slower. Many people do it and even some of the guys who make up the rules are guilty of breaking it, so why not revise the rule? Better that than having rules that don't don't mean anything in the rulebook.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby mark12b » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:29 pm

veganray wrote:Dude, I think you've just rather obliquely described the lack of moral absolutism that is one of the most virulent plagues on society today. Good to know that there's one more poor, lost soul who's 'part of the problem'.

i'm talking about golf, not society -- and rules, not morals. but yes i an arguing that the lack of absolutes here is a good thing, precisely because it fosters the kind of healthy discussion in this thread. nobody is born with the sort of honor that Golf (hopefully) promotes in the long run, and it's not something you can get by following a rulebook to the letter, either.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:42 am

I am Jack's moral relativism.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:43 am

I am Jack's historical lack of moral absolutes.
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby The Euphoric Nightmare » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:13 pm

"There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Life itself is an exercise in exceptions."

"When has justice ever been as simple as a rulebook"
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby jnecessary » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:48 pm

veganray is super troll!
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Re: Tuning a disc

Postby Smigles » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:26 am

Stupid rules are stupid.

My disc, i do what i want with it. As long as it reminds somewhat disc-shaped, i dont care if you drive with a piece of wood.

I know that we need some less loose regulations for tournament play, but honestly... There is a reason why the discs are shaped the way they are. I dont think that the pro's would change the discs they practiced with for years.
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