Push Putt Issues

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Push Putt Issues

Postby SirRaph » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:24 am

I've been attempting to follow the directions in the Disc Golf Fundamentals DVD for the push putt.

If you're unfamiliar with the video, just watch Ken Climo putt from within the circle.
You stand in sort of a karate stance, rocking back and forth, with your arm as straight as possible. The putting motion is sort of a lob/push, with your arm still straight. You get the power of the putt from shifting your weight to your front foot (your back foot ends up in the air, and from "wrist bounce" the little bit of spin you get from opening your hand quickly.

My issue is this: I can't get any...freaking...power on this thing. The left-to-right accuracy is good, but I'm falling short consistently.

When I try to get more power from the weight shift, the arc of the putt rises to a borderline basketball shot, and I end up either landing the disc on the top of the basket, or clinking it off the bottom rim.
So, I think, "I need to release it earlier". When I do that, I lose all my accuracy

When I try to use more wrist bounce, I lose right-to-left accuracy, as I'm basically using an overly regimented spin putt at that point.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I've been practicing for 1 hr per day minimum for a week (no exaggeration, I assure you) and still can't seem to get it any more consistent than the first time I tried it.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:28 am

I've come to the conclusion that there's a lot more wrist play in action here than people are letting onto. I know exactly what you're talking about and I had the same frustrations, so I started watching all the pro footage I could find and all these guys flick their wrist when they putt. I think this is more of a "do as I do" thing rather than a "do as I say".
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby SirRaph » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:38 am

That's a tremendously satisfying answer. Many internets to you, sir.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:45 am

I could be totally wrong here and completely missing a key element to the "push" putt concept but video after video these guys use some level of wrist flick. I think the key part of the technique is to remove the elbow from the equation.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby luke.baker » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:52 am

I think it took me several weeks before I felt comfortable with the push putt and started being able to work on ways to add distance. The motion just felt off for me for the first couple weeks. In any case, I agree that there's more wrist involved on these throws than they let on in their instruction (I haven't seen the DVD only Feldberg's video online).
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Mark Ellis » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:06 am

Push putters have great wrists.

If you don't have a strong wrist then use a spin putt. I couldn't push putt if my life depended on it because my wrist isn't strong enough.

Watching a video of athletes dunking a basketball will not help me either. There is no dunking in my future unless a donut or a swimming pool is involved.

Great athletes sometimes have trouble understanding the limitations of mere mortals.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby kevind » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:23 am

the way I work on it when I lose the feel for the palm push is to start like 10 feet from the basket and work back in 5-10 foot increments. Trying to bury that thing into the basket helps me also. Another constant reminder that I am fluffing putts is when I nail my second try shot after i miss a easy putt. The second one almost allways goes in and I think its the extra umph I get from being pissed about missing the first one that makes it always go in. I have to constantly remind myself to quit being a wus and go for the chains. IT will never go in if you dont get it there is my new mantra.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Redisculous » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:01 pm

Check out this much more in-depth clinic on the push putt. There are two big points that dave makes that will help you with this. He DOES use his wrist, at one point he explains that the wrist is off center as he raises his arm, and opens it to the point where his fingers are pointing at the basket. Then, watch when one of the attendee'd approches him and asks him a question, it is the best closeup of the putting motion in the whole video at about 36:30. You can clearly see that the wrist does bend back do to the natural forces of inertia or what have you, then he fires it open straight at the basket. There seems to be about 45 degrees of wrist action, this combined with another 45 degrees of finger action, which puts just enough on the putter to keep it going a little further.

The other thing he mentions here is that the pressure is not on the front of the grip. I have been practicing this putt for a while and I get the best results when I am basically balancing the disc between the cheek of my thumb (the big fleshy "gamer muscle"), and my finger tips. This also maximizes the effects of the finger spring. I can do this, and just point my fingers at the basket and the amount of spin imparted is much greater than one would expect. I believe the point of not calling this a spin putt, is that all of your motions stop, pointing AT the basket, instead of past it, like you do when you really open your wrist on a spin put. You still spin the putter, you just don't extreme it & having everything line up at the basket improves accuracy.

EDIT : Of course I forgot the link : http://www.svdgc.org/forums/index.php?s ... &#entry232
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Trey133 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:31 pm

If you want to see a good indication of how necessary wrist action is in a push putt, I recommend you look at the Nikko video for the Alabama State Championships and look at Jeremy Kolings putt, his limbs and hands are big enough that they do not hide the inherent spin involved in what would seem to be the softest of push putts.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:34 pm

Well said Redisculous. The key to that whole Dave Feldberg putting video/clinic and the video with Dave Feldberg featuring Cam Todd was that "Less is more". Meaning the less body movement you have to put into the shot, the better. What I have been starting to realize though, ala what Mark is saying, is that what works for them doesn't necessarily work for me. I HAVE to snap my wrist pretty hard to "push" that disc 30ft, I can't do it any other way. After weeks of trying to literally "push" the putter into the basket I got pissed off and went back through all the video I could find and in particular I took a look at Mark's Discraft "Making long putt's" video and if you watch both jump putters (which as I understand it, jump putting is a push putt with significantly more oomph from the jump) they have a LOT of wrist movement at their release.

You definitely want to find a way to put your body movement into the push though. I think that is the hardest thing for me to do, to harness my body motion into the throw. When I do it right, I'm aware of it.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby mark12b » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:10 pm

take a look at the wrist action here, down in the photo analysis:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources ... putt.shtml

the wrist is definitely involved but it's more of a springy natural action than a conscious fling. i've been trying to incorporate this sort of wrist movement lately and it's helped with the timing of the finger spring and palm push. the timing tends to get screwy if i try to extend the wrist too consciously. but power suffers if i don't think about it a little bit at least.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:55 pm

mark12b wrote:take a look at the wrist action here, down in the photo analysis:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources ... putt.shtml

the wrist is definitely involved but it's more of a springy natural action than a conscious fling. i've been trying to incorporate this sort of wrist movement lately and it's helped with the timing of the finger spring and palm push. the timing tends to get screwy if i try to extend the wrist too consciously. but power suffers if i don't think about it a little bit at least.


I'm not convinced. That could be because I can't do it/feel it but I would suspect "conscious fling" is EXTREMELY subjective across players.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby mark12b » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:20 pm

Jeronimo wrote:I'm not convinced. That could be because I can't do it/feel it but I would suspect "conscious fling" is EXTREMELY subjective across players.

oh, absolutely. and that's just this one technique. i've been rereading all blake's putting stuff lately and this detail is something that i hadn't noticed before. i think it explains why some guys who say "no wrist" are actually using their wrist a little.

of course the important aspect of the wrist action is what position it puts your hand in at release. since the "push" putt depends on a well-placed palm nudge, whatever wrist action you use has to position the disc in front of the palm at the right moment.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:11 pm

mark12b wrote:
Jeronimo wrote:I'm not convinced. That could be because I can't do it/feel it but I would suspect "conscious fling" is EXTREMELY subjective across players.

oh, absolutely. and that's just this one technique. i've been rereading all blake's putting stuff lately and this detail is something that i hadn't noticed before. i think it explains why some guys who say "no wrist" are actually using their wrist a little.

of course the important aspect of the wrist action is what position it puts your hand in at release. since the "push" putt depends on a well-placed palm nudge, whatever wrist action you use has to position the disc in front of the palm at the right moment.


Yes! Exactly.
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Re: Push Putt Issues

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:18 pm

I was doing a bunch of putting practice this evening and noticed that in order to do this I tend to lever the disc somewhat between my thumb and my pinky finger since my thumb is at the front edge of the disc and my pinky is further back. While I push with my palm and open my wrist I get some kind of leverage on the disc in my hand as well, I think it's the thumb and pinky...
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