Putters Off the Tee

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Putters Off the Tee

Postby bigs348 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:02 pm

There's a "Driving with a Putter" thread, but the content didn't exactly meet the title.

I was looking for some tips on using a putter off the tee. I have a 175 E-Wizard that I use for long approaches, and I'd like to start driving with it, but I never feel comfortable.

One of three things will happen: 1) I'll get a lot of flutter and lose distance, 2) I'll turn it over, or 3) it'll seem like its flying great and then I'll get no distance.

I have a clean release with other discs, and I think maybe the depth of the Wizard is messing me up, causing a bad release, and therefore flutter, but I don't know. I've been trying to release with between 30-45 degrees of hyzer -- is that about right? Should I try to ease up a bit on it and only throw at say 70%?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Please help!
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:10 pm

flutter = off axis torque.
excessive turnover with a stable putter = off axis torque.

distance with a putter = height.
~20' of height = ~300' D
~10' of height = ~240' D
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Postby garublador » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:14 pm

To get rid of that off-axis torque, try playing with only your putter for a few rounds. I found that helped me get rid of some of that flutter and made my putters much more useful.
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Postby bigs348 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:15 pm

Well, I'm definitely going to get out and play a bunch of rounds with just my Wizard. I've been meaning to do this, but after next week I'll actually have the time to get out and do it.

Blake, I was looking through the articles and I couldn't find anything related to off-axis torque. I've heard you mention it a ton before, but what's the best way to fix it? I don't feel I have this problem with other discs, including my old XD, but that's a much shallower disc.
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Postby Smyith » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:03 pm

i was having a similar problem and for me it ended up being my grip. typically i use a kinda two finger grip. for putter driving though i use 3 or 4 finger grips and it solved all my problems, so it was probably just the way i was releasing or maybe the bead was messing with the 2 finger i dont know. hopefully that'll help u
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:08 pm

if it's grip related, switching to a fan or fork grip can help and using pads instead of tips on the grip points can help.

if it's not grip related, then look at the plane of your shoulders and arm in relation to the disc angle. throwing too hard can effect this too.
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Postby bigs348 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:18 am

So I left work a little early and went to throw my Wizard around a bit. No time for the course, I just went out into my side yard.

I used a 3-finger power grip (with fork or fan grip I don't feel like I have any kind of control over the disc), and I played around with angles, height, and power.

After 10 minutes or so of figuring stuff out (which involved lots of fluttering and turning over, etc.), I found that throwing with about 30 degrees of hyzer at about 65-70% power worked pretty good. I was getting 10-12 feet of height and throwing a little under 225. The disc was flying nice and smooth, but I put almost too much hyzer on the disc, so it wasn't really flattening out -- it was more continuing on a hyzer line, but ending up pretty straight out from me.

In the half hour or so that I did this, I found that the shot is very accurate, and I plan to drive with the putter a lot more now that I know how to throw it correctly. After getting a little more used to this, I think I'm going to try and add a little more height and a little more power and see what kind of distance I can get. For now, a 200-225 foot shot with my putter will be invaluable.

I also threw my Champ Panther a little bit, too, because it's been so windy recently, she hasn't had a chance to fly all that much. I was throwing much smoother (with my newly learned bent-elbow technique) and, with 18-20 feet of height, I was getting it out there a little over 300 -- a distance that I'm not usually able to reach with a midrange. Now if I could just transfer the "height=distance" concept over to my driving...
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:26 am

Thats similar to what I do with a putter, but without so much angle. A slight hyzer...

After a while, you'll be playing with your wizard and buzz? or whatever mid you're using. It helps your accuracy by leaps and bounds.

I've got some issues with my mid and x avenger: I flip them.. The driver is due to it's stage of beatness (and the weight of 165), but the mid I believe is a grip issue as well. Although it could be off axis torque, I can't see why I only flip these two discs. When I go to a fan grip, I'm having trouble getting the appropriate pop.
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:33 pm

height = distance only with slower glide based discs.

putters, mids, and older drivers.

newer drivers it's only if you can get the height out of natural lift.

if you find you get more control with a 3 finger power vs. a fork or fan, then i don't think you are doing the fork or fan grip correctly...
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:27 pm

Blake_T wrote:height = distance only with slower glide based discs.

putters, mids, and older drivers.

newer drivers it's only if you can get the height out of natural lift.

if you find you get more control with a 3 finger power vs. a fork or fan, then i don't think you are doing the fork or fan grip correctly...

I'm re-reading your grip articles.

On a separate note, I find my buzz will sometimes gain altitude even when I throw it 15-20 feet of the ground. Should it do that , or am I blowing the throw?
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:17 pm

not sure what you mean by "gain altitude"

the buzzz is a lot better low height flyer than most midranges, which is both a strength and a weakness.
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Postby bigs348 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:27 pm

Blake, as far as grips go, it's not that I feel like I have no control over the disc with a fan or fork grip (as I wrongly phrased it), but rather that I don't use those grips enough to feel comfortable with them.

I think that it's more of a mental thing that anything else.

Overall, I feel very uncomfortable with a fork grip -- I have big hands and I don't feel like my fingers fit in the disc's rim.

I might not actually be doing a fan grip right when I think about it -- I'm not positive what exactly it looks like. There's no examples of the fan grip in the grip article -- do you know of any pictures anywhere, Blake?

Apart from putting, I've found that a three-finger power grip is the only grip that I actually like...
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm

the fan grip is in the article under the "middle finger rip" section.

it's actually easier for players with big hands vs. trying to cram fingers on the rim or bend them awkwardly. stokely used the fan grip and he had huge hands.
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Postby Weebl » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:45 pm

I also have large hands(my spead out hand is bigger than a large diameter disc), and the thing that helped me a lot is 4-finger power grip having it line up along the seam of my palm and my index/middle finger and then placing my thumb almost directly towards the center of the disc. This helped my issues with that grip on any disc, Drivers (wraith/teebird/leopard) midrange and putters. For shots 200' and in with a putter I use a fan grip, i found out when using the fan grip it's much more crucial to have the disc traveling in a straight line on the pull through, otherwise it will shank off to the left or right. Once I worked that out, it added accuracy and distance to my drives as well (more efficient).
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Postby bigs348 » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:41 pm

I had a great weekend driving with my putter. Played two tournaments on pretty short courses and found myself using my putter off the tee on over 75% of the holes. I'm back to a KC 10x Pro Aviar now. The Wizard just never really did it for me -- sometimes it would fly great, othertimes not so much, no consistency. The 10x is amazing and I've never thrown a better putter or midrange disc. I started off this weekend throwing it on anything ~240' and under but by the end of the weekend I'd stretched it out to 300' fairly easy. Hell yeah...
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