Tournament problem

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Tournament problem

Postby Smigles » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:50 am

Ok, i witnessed something this weekend at the swiss championship that realy left me speechless and i dont know what to do from here.

During the final in ne cathegory ( wont name names ) there was one realy close fight, two of the players were 1 shot apart all week end and fighting back and forth. There was one drive from player A that went OB, and there was a big discussion between the two on where it went out. Player A claimed that it went out 150 feet further than where player B claimed that it went out. There were 4 people in this flight, and some bystanders too. There were two people watching them play that are pdga officials. One open official and one official that played in the same age cathegory as the two that had the fight. Why they didnt intervene is beyond me as EVERYBODY there agreed with player B.

From how I understand the rules, if there is a dispute on where the disc went out, you have to ask the flight, right ? You have to get to a group decision, right ? And for a group decision to count, everybody in the flight has to have voiced his opinion, right ? However that player A just ignored the complaints by player B and continued to play from where he thought he went out without waiting for the rest of the flight to say something, 150 feet ahead of where he should have played. He won the tournament by one stroke. :(

I realy lost alot of respect for that guy that day. But i wonder who's mistake that was in the end ( except the cheating bastard of course, who gets all the blame anyway ). Player B for not insisting ? The flight for not making a proper group decision ? The pdga officials watching and not intervening ? The spectators for not buu-ing him off the course ?
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Re: Tournament problem

Postby curt » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:22 pm

There are two important points to note before actually going into a discussion of fault. First, the spectating official who played in the same group should not have stepped in to make a call. If he is playing in the same division, he has too much at stake to be inserting his opinion as an official. (I'm not entirely sure this is actually backed up by the rules, but it is how I would act). Second, anyone who is spectating that is not an official is given absolutely no authority by the rulebook, so regardless of how loudly they spoke up or what their input was, it is irrelevant.

Now, what should have happened. If player A and B disagreed on the spot of going OB, then player C and D should have been consulted and a group decision made (Assuming four player cards). If player A disagrees with the group opinion, he should play both options, with his opinion as a provisional, and consult the TD after the round. Under no circumstances is he allowed to play a lie not agreed upon by two people in the group (technically, I do not think there is recourse in the rulebook if two players agree on one spot while the other two agree on a different one), especially if there is disagreement. As far as placing blame goes, Player B and the rest of the group certainly should have made a stronger case for the "correct" lie, however, I would personally commend him for not doing so. This is afterall, still basically a hobby and probably not worth a huge disturbance on the course.
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Re: Tournament problem

Postby Smigles » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:13 am

curt wrote:This is afterall, still basically a hobby and probably not worth a huge disturbance on the course.


It was the final of the swiss championship. IMO it would be worth banning the player in question from the sport. Rules are rules.

Anyway : the problem was that players C and D didnt say a thing. There was no group decision. Players C and D were more intimidated by player A than anything else. Player A later claimed that player C agreed with his lie, probably by telepathy. Which would make continuing from that spot ok, i assume ?

Seems to me like the main problem was that noone of the flight realy dared to speak up to player A. Would not have happened with me in the flight, i assure you.
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Re: Tournament problem

Postby curt » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:41 am

I don't think the player's actions are anywhere near sufficient for banning him from the game, in fact, I think it would be difficult to find a rule to support even disqualifying him from the tournament. The only way you would be able to DQ him would be if you could prove he willfully circumvented the rules of the game, which probably wouldn't hold up. Especially if he claims player C agreed with him (It is his intent that matters, so as long as he believes that, then he would have been correct in his actions and not intentionally breaking rules).

I also think it is telling that the other players in the group didn't speak up while player B was making a huge scene. If it really were a clear cut case of the disc going out 150 feet further down the fairway, then they would have said something.
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