Six Drives - full/slow motion

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Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby kettemaster » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:44 am

Video taping has made me aware of some technique flaws that I think are holding me back on distance. I'm throwing Wraiths in these videos, and they are going about 280'. I'm using the fork grip.
One thing I noticed is that when I pull-through, the nose of the disc is down and the underside of the disc is showing (look at 1st drive at :13). This is causing me to release on a slight anny rather than hyzer. I've done some tweaking to correct this - raise left leg, point wrist down, extreme hyzer angle on back swing, bend at the waist. However, these tweaks haven't done the trick.

I'm not obsessed with big D, but I would like to be able to consistently throw at least 350' with decent accuracy.

Full motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ab4pDag3gA

Slow Motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW2s381R9Lc
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby JR » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:43 am

Welcome.

You have a classic anhyzer x step moving direction and plant step landing position. Moving from rear right of the tee to front left is the way to move for annies and rollers. For a flat throw start with the rear center of the tee and throw at front center. When the last step of the x step lands you want to land it on the line you are moving on or a few inches right of it. Planting right helps to tilt your body for hyzer and left for anny.

You start to move the right arm with fast acceleration just before the disc is coming level with the left side. You should try what happens going mellow and slow until the rear of the disc is by the right pectoral muscle and then accelerating hard. Eventually you may be able to aim with the sense of pressure on the finger tips that the late acceleration of the arm creates. It also adds spin relative to the speed and with practice possibly even speed if you get snap down really well. Have you read technique forum stickies? There is a wealth of detailed information about snap, late acceleration etc. there.

If these changes won't add significant distance for you I suggest using a much slower low fade driver on the course for added controllability. Like a TL. Perhaps a Valkyrie. I just bought a Pro Wraith 166 and it's about the only Wraith I can throw above head level that doesn't fade too hard even for run up steps and full power throw. So it's not very controllable disc for me unless I need to throw low or finish hard left. I've gotten a broken in 166 Star Wraith to 400' on a golfable s-curve. Meaning it doesn't deviate that much from the line. The reason Wraiths fade hard for me is that I probably have fairly little off axis torque. It's ironic that a flawed throw can reduce the fade of a disc. Still OAT free throw is usually longer. At least with a proper disc for your form and power. Usually I throw farther than Wraith with a Beast.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby kettemaster » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:08 pm

JR wrote:You have a classic anhyzer x step moving direction and plant step landing position. Moving from rear right of the tee to front left is the way to move for annies and rollers. For a flat throw start with the rear center of the tee and throw at front center. When the last step of the x step lands you want to land it on the line you are moving on or a few inches right of it. Planting right helps to tilt your body for hyzer and left for anny.


Thank you for the quick reply.

I've been starting at the back-right of the tee for every throw and releasing from the middle or left-front of the tee.
So what you're saying is for a:
hyzer throw - start back-left, release front-right?
anny/roller - start back-right, release front-left?
straight - start back-middle, release front-middle?

From what you can see, am I getting the weight shift into play?
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby JR » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:40 pm

That's correct. I'd say that you could get about 4-5" forward with your heart which should be as close to the target as the right knee.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby kettemaster » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:28 am

JR wrote:That's correct. I'd say that you could get about 4-5" forward with your heart which should be as close to the target as the right knee.


"heart" ?
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby JR » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:14 am

Yup. Upper body, torso, whatever you want to concentrate on as long as the heart is equidistant with the right knee of the target. The point is that you are a little bit too upright so leaning 4-5" forward would help with that. The farther you throw the more the discs are gonna rise even if you threw the disc nose down. People often say that a disc will rise as long as it's hyzered. There are exceptions to that. S disc that's rising fast will have an upward momentum even when it is flat so it will continue to rise for a short time. I just came back from a moderately windy session of field practice where I threw into head winds and rear winds. In the head wind drives I exaggerated my leaning forward to keep the disc in the field and from rising way high. I could see the bottom of the discs at times when I was pushing the nose down far and released flat and the discs rose still.

I got a few 415-418' throws in rear winds Beast and P DD2 and had my jaw drop with the longest head wind drive I've ever had. ESP 170 Nuke annied fairly high held the nose and right side of the disc down way far but the wind added so much lift to the disc that it didn't drop as fast as usual and it landed at 426' and it bounced up and immediately hit a fence in front of it at 429'. It was going fast so it would have skipped way farther. Lucky me with the fence because there were kids that may have been in the extreme range of skip possibilities. Even though the disc would not have moved fast then. I didn't see them behind the fence.That's why I dared to rip distance lines. Local fields are getting too small for me in the winds. And with possible fluke better than half hit snaps.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby kettemaster » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:12 am

Changing the start-finish direction of my X-step made a BIG difference in helping me keep the disc on the angle that I'm trying to throw. ...helps to go back to the basics as this is something I learned when I first started playing but somehow forgot. :|
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby Thatdirtykid » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:09 pm

I am not amazing with the whole form critique. But I can tell you if your goal is 350' d somewhat accurately you need to switch to a power grip and stop throwing wraiths until you are at 350' learn to throw neutral discs (XL or TL being good choices) well. Throwing just mids and putters (buzzz, comet, dx roc being good places to start). You will auto correct your form some learning to throw these discs. I personally have never had any luck correcting my form by thinking about it. (IE if I put my plant foot down sooner and pivot on my heel instead of ball I will get X more distance. . . yadda yadda)
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby kettemaster » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:54 pm

I can get 350' if I throw the Wraith on an anny and let it flex. However, I'd like to be able to do this with a disc that I can release flat or with some hyzer then have it flip-up.
I can get a 171 JLS to flip-up from a hyzer, and I can also do it with a 163 Wraith.

I did take a stack of Coyotes to the field which helped me to see if I was over-correcting or rolling my wrist. Those things hold a line quite well.

As for the power grip vs ____ grip. I have to disagree with you. I've seen peeps throw 350+ using a 2 and 3 finger grip.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby keltik » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:06 pm

kettemaster wrote:As for the power grip vs ____ grip. I have to disagree with you. I've seen peeps throw 350+ using a 2 and 3 finger grip.


have you seen anyone throw 450+ using a 2 finger grip? I haven't. almost all of the big throwers throw with a four finger power grip. If you don't like the power grip try the stack fork grip. but bottom line you need to have all four fingers on the disc to get the most out of your throw.

EDIT: and yes you should disc down....way down. try throwing only mids off the tee.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby kettemaster » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:37 am

I'm using the stack fork grip for all throws except putting.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby JR » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:03 pm

I've thrown 400' with just the index finger trigger pulling grip. Almost as far with the Voigt grip without any fingers inside the disc. That makes slips easier to happen and the way I gripped and tightened at the end felt bad and allowing micro slips and being a little shorter on average.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Six Drives - full/slow motion

Postby jubuttib » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:11 am

Like the others have pointed out, definitely disc down. Until you can reach around 280' with a putter you won't have a need for anything faster than an Eagle. Mids and putters are the best, Cheetahs, Leos, Gazelles, TBs, even a Banshee in headwind if you really want to use drivers.

You also look a bit heavy-footed, like you're just stomping your way through the run up. Try to stay light and quick.
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