2011 Rule Changes

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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:47 pm

Same as putts thru the side. If players observe the shot to drop thru the top of the chain support, then no good. If no one sees it, then no one would know it got in the basket that way any way so it's good. The problem I see is the Innova traveler basket has an open top inside the netted chain area. Although you usually don't see these baskets used in events, if it is used, then it's not uncommon to see shots go in thru the top. These are the baskets used for the SkillShot competition at Worlds also.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:53 pm

I say allow it on existing baskets, and alter the specs on all new equiptment.
And, not to be picky, but is there a working definition of "run-up area"?

Specs have been changed for new basket approvals but exisitng baskets are grandfathered in.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby veganray » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:55 pm

Q: What if 200 live & 1000 online spectators (none of whom, for the sake of argument, happen to be a certified official) see it enter through the side, but none of the competitors?
A: One more of the myriad circumstances that lend credence to the "Disc golf - as governed by the Professional [sic] Disc Golf Association - is a sport? Gimme a f'ing break!" argument.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby veganray » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:56 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:Specs have been changed for new basket approvals but exisitng baskets are grandfathered in.

I'll bet you a dollar I can still wedge my putter in the side of the newly-speced baskets.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Flipflat » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:35 pm

veganray wrote:
Chuck Kennedy wrote:Specs have been changed for new basket approvals but exisitng baskets are grandfathered in.

I'll bet you a dollar I can still wedge my putter in the side of the newly-speced baskets.


I'll bet you a dollar no one gives a shit.
I would like your X-Wasps, please.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:41 pm

I'll bet you can, too. If the RC was looking for 100% no wedgies, they would have asked for the spec to be changed to require an almost solid basin for the basket. Tech Standards hasn't been asked to change it beyond the tightening in 2009.

I'm thinking either the Competition Director will allow spotters to be "deputized" to make calls or the RC will produce a Rules Q&A that allows the TD to deputize them as "officials." Even though I asked for it, the RC did not address the potential use of video evidence being used after the fact to make or confirm calls but a policy is needed there.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Star Shark » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:18 pm

veganray wrote:Q: What if 200 live & 1000 online spectators (none of whom, for the sake of argument, happen to be a certified official) see it enter through the side, but none of the competitors?
A: One more of the myriad circumstances that lend credence to the "Disc golf - as governed by the Professional [sic] Disc Golf Association - is a sport? Gimme a f'ing break!" argument.


This happened at a PGA event some years ago where a player accidentally moved his ball but didn't notice, but the fans at home did. They called it in and he was DQ'd.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Fritz » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:14 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:Same as putts thru the side. If players observe the shot to drop thru the top of the chain support, then no good. If no one sees it, then no one would know it got in the basket that way any way so it's good. The problem I see is the Innova traveler basket has an open top inside the netted chain area. Although you usually don't see these baskets used in events, if it is used, then it's not uncommon to see shots go in thru the top. These are the baskets used for the SkillShot competition at Worlds also.


I'm a little confused now. So even if the entire disc falls into the basket from the top / side it doesn't count? That seems a little silly. I could understand not counting it if it's wedged in or stuck on top. But to not count it because it didn't go through in from the middle?
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Fritz » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:17 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:I'll bet you can, too. If the RC was looking for 100% no wedgies, they would have asked for the spec to be changed to require an almost solid basin for the basket. Tech Standards hasn't been asked to change it beyond the tightening in 2009.

I'm thinking either the Competition Director will allow spotters to be "deputized" to make calls or the RC will produce a Rules Q&A that allows the TD to deputize them as "officials." Even though I asked for it, the RC did not address the potential use of video evidence being used after the fact to make or confirm calls but a policy is needed there.


Instant replay in Disc Golf..that'll be the day we become legit..
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:47 pm

I could understand not counting it if it's wedged in or stuck on top. But to not count it because it didn't go through in from the middle?

Either the group is able to watch the shot or they're not. If they watch a bad shot go thru the top, side or bottom, it doesn't matter whether it stops part way or goes all the way in. It's not good. If they can't see what happened and they disc is in the basket when they get there, then it's good.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Fritz » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:09 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:
I could understand not counting it if it's wedged in or stuck on top. But to not count it because it didn't go through in from the middle?

Either the group is able to watch the shot or they're not. If they watch a bad shot go thru the top, side or bottom, it doesn't matter whether it stops part way or goes all the way in. It's not good. If they can't see what happened and they disc is in the basket when they get there, then it's good.


Obviously no one is going to know if it went through the top or the side or what if they can't see it. That part of the rule goes along with the "Does a tree make a sound if no one is around to hear it fall?" line of logic.

It seems like a flawed rule to say a little luck doesn't count any more. That would be like saying if your ball in ball golf hits the flag and drops into the hole it doesn't count.

You are putting, a gust of wind lifts your disc and it lands on the top of the basket, and falls through the hole in the top. Under this new rule it doesn't count and you have to go up and putt from a lie under the basket.
Seems like punishment. The only basket this really effects is Innova's Chastity belt baskets.

Scenario; DGA Mach baskets, you putt, disc lands on top bounces and then falls into the basket. Does this count? This is assuming everyone sees it.

At first glance I liked this rule, because I do think if a disc is wedged from the front, or hanging by a knuckle, then yeah it shouldn't count. But Not counting a shot the goes all the way through from side or top seems punishment.
hmmm.... :/
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:13 pm

How far in is "in?" It's bad, it's bad, it's bad, it's now lucky good?
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby NoMoreTinCup » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:43 pm

Chuck, thank you for listening to us bitch. I appreciate and value your time. You should probably stop reading this now if you don't wish to hear some scathing PDGA criticism........
Rant on: Really? It wasn't f#$#$ing broken, don't f#$$#ing fix it. How many times has anyone seen a putt count because it was hanging on a nub in a PDGA event. Me? Big f#$#ing donut hole, zero. Nobody intentionally throws a putt through the top or side. You don't like it, fix the damn baskets. Don't give me another stupid rule to try and defend/enforce. Are we going to disallow skip shots or deflections next. "Oh my goodness, that guy just skip aced a 487' hole, but his group could see it, so he will mark it underneath, and take a 2!" Speaking of astronomical odds, the next group has a skip ace too, but because that group (besides the thrower) was ogling a soccer MILF, they didn't see it, so the second one counts. How the hell is that fair?
If there was any justice to the new rules, the first time I see a player move the damn brushpile his tee shot landed in, ("It was in my run-up area.") His putt would go in through the side, and wouldn't count. This reeks of bullshit.
Rant off.
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Fritz » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:12 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:How far in is "in?" It's bad, it's bad, it's bad, it's now lucky good?


Resting in the changes fully, or in the bottoms of the basket.
Who cares how it got in, if it's in all the way shouldn't it count?
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Re: 2011 Rule Changes

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:27 am

The problem is that target manufacturers might design baskets to enhance the chances for a disc to go thru the side and top then advertise their targets catch more putts. I don't believe that's a direction we want to encourage. The new rule is attempting to cover a problem with current designs and encourage future target designs to get better.
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