New drive form training critique needed

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New drive form training critique needed

Postby Kekkonen » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:02 am

I'd like to have as much critique as possible on my new drive form.

Last season started nicely with improved drive accuracy and distance (second video form). Somewhere along the summer months my form (or physique) started to deteriorate. The only explaining factors I could figure out was me starting to train the right pec drill and neglecting the gym hours. As I got the right pec drill down I was around 85% of my regular drive distance without reachback or run up. The thing was that this or something else messed up my drive distance. Accuracy was a bit better doing standstills, but all out drives were just not working anymore.

This season I'm planning to start from scratch with driving and would like to do things better this time. As I've managed to fix some errors new ones have emerged :evil: I'd appriciate any comments on my form as I'm sure I have missed most of the errors I'm doing and may have lost more of the good parts than I recognize myself.

The new and improved (?) form with 95-120m (330-390ft) drives on the video - the side view throws were the longest ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpOcW6tjluc
The discs are a bit too overstable for me: 1) Star Boss 175g 2) Star Destroyer 175g 3) Ch Groove 175g 4) Star TeeRex 171g

The old form in case anyone would like to see the difference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXWcYxhjlBQ

Thanks in advance. I would truly appreciate any help!
Kekkonen
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Re: New drive form training critique needed

Postby JR » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:48 am

Tervetuloa parhaalle fribasaitille. Jos haluat Suomen huippupelaajilta kommenttia, kannattaa laittaa linkit myös osoitteeseen: keskustelu.frisbeeliitto.com ja siellä frisbeegolf ja keskusteluun pimp my drive. Missä päin on sulatettu nurmi -kadehdin silmät päästäni!!!! Eikö Turun suunnalla ollut joku tuollainen paikka? Sillä suunnalla on paljon pelaajia, joilta voi saada henkilökohtaista apua, joten jos olet sieltä, kannattaa kysellä sikäläisiltä pelaajilta valmennusta. Tällä saitilla on sillä suunnalla vaikuttavia pelaajia.

For the benefit of others i'll continue in English. Your head is tilted backward that increases your weight back posture which helps to increase too much height to your disc for your power. You could further limit the height of your throw by checking your arm pull height in the reach back versus the release. See how low your arm is at the reach back and how much higher it is at the release. If you lean a little forward at the hips you'll also lower the throw and equally importantly lower the front of the disc. Which is helped further by pushing the hand down from the wrist in the end of the throw at the latest.

I imagine you were trying to throw anhyzers in the from behind throws. Your running direction and right leg landing placement and arm motion are aligned for anhyzer. The arm was hyzer in the from the side filmed throws. You could limit the height further by shortening the last step by 10-20 cm by not lifting the right leg from the hip toward the target when your right side points to the target.

Not touching the disc with the left hand, planting the final step with the toes, hips and shoulders pointing farther away from the target in the reach back and twisting the hips and shoulders farther right at the release add power. Your left leg drags at least in some drives. Bending down at the knees and starting the throw by pushing harder and especially concentrating on quickness of the push helps to eliminate dragging. Dragging is like an anchor slowing you down when the legs should be your main power generating place. Don't be afraid to turn the head fully away from the target at the reach back for added power.

If you play on even ground you should learn pivoting on the heel instead of the ball of the foot. You'll turn around quicker and throw farther. The way the best players in the world pivot with the right foot is to land on the inner side of the right toe rolling the sole to side of the shoe corner on the ground until your heel touches the ground and then you put more of the heel to the ground lifting the front of the foot well in the air pivoting on the heel to face the target. The heel being round and smaller creates less resistance to turning around. Heel on the ground approach shots are smoother and more accurate than ball of the foot pivots at least for me. With virtually no time on the heel pivots and 8 years on the ball of the foot pivots. Talk about wasted time :evil:

If you can push the elbow 10 cm closer to the target before straightening the arm it should help you to accelerate better. I would also try a later starting point to arm acceleration. Generally starting hard when the disc is passing the right side is a good starting point to finding out where the best place is for you. You need to test both directions in small increments. If you could wait until the disc is by your right side before you turn the torso toward the target you'd get more power.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: New drive form training critique needed

Postby Kekkonen » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:53 am

Kyllä hallitreeneissä ja Lausteella olen käynyt asioita läpi väen kanssa. Tällä hetkellä näyttää, että kuvaamani videot junnujen maailmanmestarista ovat vaikuttanut jo liikerataani kun olen yrittänyt imitoida. Sula kenttä löytyy Kaarinasta. Liiton sivuille kirjoitettu pitkä viesti ei vain tullut näkyviin...


Good points: especially the pull height variations throw per throw. I tend to use too overstable discs on the field as hyzers feel more natural to me - I feel that training in a slight anhyzer angle could improve my game more than hyzers.

What goes to weight forward and pivot on the heel you can see that it was the way i did it last summer. For some reason I never got my body rotation to work more than about 160° that way. Too small a rotation led to loss of power an to a hop at the end of the throw. As I don't know how to fix rotation issues otherwise I moved to this new form that could eventually help me.

I noticed the too long stance and the dragging of my left foot last summer and decided to fix them. You really think the stance is still too wide? Footwork has been and is my most problematic are of the throw as I really don't "feel" my feet during the throw. It's really hard to get rid of the dragging also - I gues I'll have to develop some drill for it. Any suggestions on that? Anybody?

Does "twisting the hips and shoulders farther right at the release add power" mean that I should turn more or earlier in the throw? My guess would be more as that has always felt difficult. I've tried to figure out how but without adequate results so far...

This "later starting point to arm acceleration" seems logical and seems to work doing standstills. It just doesn't seem to work for me with runups for some reason. I'm obviously changing something but I just cannot figurwe out what it is.

Thanks for your insight this'll help a lot!
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Re: New drive form training critique needed

Postby JR » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:05 am

At http://www.youtube.com/user/lcgm8#p/u/32/aVVC-C_BM2M in 5:57 is the same guy in slow motion. Notice how his post didn't get responses from anyone else but me? Maybe the others are afraid of him? :D The forums in frisbeeliitto have a time out for writing posts. That's why i copy the text before trying to send. If the timer hits and requires you to log in again you'll start with an empty message. Then i just paste what i wrote.

Where in Kaarina is that field i may have to go there :-D Is it by one of the disc golf courses? I haven't played in Kaarina yet. The club in Turku 7K has members who have logged in here. One of them might be Lloyba who has sent videos of himself here somewhere in the video critique section and a later vid in FFA forum pimp my drive thread.

To get the back turned toward the target the right leg needs to be turned away from the target too. That's why i mentioned that don't be afraid to turn the head away from the target. If you look at Markus Mäntylä at the pimp my drive thread or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSlPi_LxNYk he's way turned away from where he's throwing. My back was against a bush and i couldn't get farther away from him so you can't actually see how Markus had his toes, knees, hips, torso and head pointing 180 degrees away from where he was throwing at the reach back when the disc reached the farthest point away from the body. And yes the timing of the arm acceleration after such a wide motion is difficult to get. I got it to work somewhat after three months of field practice. To get it natural and more repeatable took even longer IIRC about a summer. Finish one is short though :-)

To answer your question you should turn more away from the target early in your throw. But only for added distance. You will lose accuracy and repeatability as a result. But your current form is better although still on the power side of the spectrum of forms rather than control. Pimp my drive contains a lot of info on control form in Finnish.

For footwork drilling i'd watch Muhammad Ali jumping about on the tips of the shoes. In disc golf you need to maintain balance while simultaneously turning in wide motions and accelerating hard. Ali obviously has balance and he'd be beat up before ever winning anything major if he wasn't in balance to move away from under a punch or to attack. The way Ali had little shoe to ground contact and very light steps is what disc golfers need too. The less shoe contact to the ground there is the faster we turn but going too far standing on one toe is gonna ruin balance. So it's a good idea to build up ankle and calf strength while practicing balance. Google yoga pose palm tree and do that and you're well on your way. The added benefit to that pose is that it will also build up your core muscles while straightening your posture which is super important. Taking each of the x steps with about as light steps as Ali does hopping about allows quick turning toward the target while maintaining balance.

Your stance wouldn't be too wide if you ran fairly fast before taking the x steps. The stance width increases with added speed. You need to drill a lot of this with a lot of repetitions to make things natural once you manage to get repeatable form. Usually people learn the fastest when they slow everything slows down. And that's a choice right there because at first you lose distance easily while gaining distance slowly. That's why for motivation for drilling you should first find out the speed where you make motions correctly and throw accurately. And push slowly faster in small additions to execution speed until you lose accuracy. Then you should drill at that speed until it becomes accurate. Then going for full speed to see how much accuracy and repeatability you lose. You should lose and that is ok. You should have at least two forms one for maximum golf course distance that allows you to stay inbounds and a shorter more controllable form.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
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