Innova Mako

[TobbeF]

You are both wrong; mega stable is where I keep my racing elephants

[Unity]

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I'm with jub for the way I think about it. Bill, I get what you're saying, and I think a lot of people say it that way without thinking about it or understanding it. Technically, as I see it anyways, the phrase "more stable" means different things depending on the context. If the scale of stability is as follows:

<overstable>----1----<stable>----2----<understable>

then "more stable" for the disc at '1' would mean more understable. "more stable" for the disc at '2' would mean more overstable. The most stable a disc can be is dead straight, which Innova claims the Mako to be.

This debate never seems to be solved though...

EDIT: On topic, is the Mako a good disc for controled anhyzers and turnovers, or more for just trying to go straight? I'm bouncing between it and the Fuse to compliment the Buzzz.

[discspeed]

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I'm with jub for the way I think about it. Bill, I get what you're saying, and I think a lot of people say it that way without thinking about it or understanding it. Technically, as I see it anyways, the phrase "more stable" means different things depending on the context. If the scale of stability is as follows:

<overstable>----1----<stable>----2----<understable>

then "more stable" for the disc at '1' would mean more understable. "more stable" for the disc at '2' would mean more overstable. The most stable a disc can be is dead straight, which Innova claims the Mako to be.

This debate never seems to be solved though...

EDIT: On topic, is the Mako a good disc for controled anhyzers and turnovers, or more for just trying to go straight? I'm bouncing between it and the Fuse to compliment the Buzzz.

The terminology debate is easily solved by dealing only with the terms "high speed stable" and "low speed stable". The word stable is a quagmire that means different things to different people and attempts to oversimplify a rather complex set of variables. My advice is to avoid it.

Speaking of the Mako...It is like the Sidewinder of midranges. It can be used successfully by someone who has a lot of touch/control or by someone that has very little. How is this possible? Simple...to exactly control it takes a lot of skill compared to discs that have a more defined and consistent flight character (Buzzz/Roc). To get it to carry forward (and relatively far) on some random straightish line most the time with form errors is also easy, hence it works for those with weaker form/control. The FUSE is much easier to get to do exactly what you want, but doesn't go AS far for as little power because it is slower. To me, the Mako is a stable Meteor, and gives some dynamics at the cost of being squirrelier than traditional mids (I consider the Fuse, although new, a traditional style mid).

[jubuttib]

The terminology debate is easily solved by dealing only with the terms "high speed stable" and "low speed stable". The word stable is a quagmire that means different things to different people and attempts to oversimplify a rather complex set of variables. My advice is to avoid it.

^^ This.

[Tossin' in Memphis]

The terminology debate is easily solved by dealing only with the terms "high speed stable" and "low speed stable". The word stable is a quagmire that means different things to different people and attempts to oversimplify a rather complex set of variables. My advice is to avoid it.

^^ This.

yeah, I can dig that...

[lovetoDG]

Anyone throwing Champ Mako? How is it? Any flat Champs?

[jaydub803]

I have a 176 cfr misprint mako and I did have a star 180 I bought used. The star model was very floppy feeling in the hand and drooped when gripped. Felt and flew like a gummy bear, straight but no glide really and very forgiving on release angle. The cfr disc is a little more to my liking, it feels like a cfr roc in hand but has a smooth rim, is a little domey, but very controllable. It goes like a laser on a straight shot, but won't hit the range of a roc for me. I can throw great anhyzers with it on small angles. With a good snap and a little angle it goes right very predictably and fades like a dx dart, as long as it has less than 20 to fall it hits right on top of where it stalls. I can't get it to do long anhyzers very well, I like the panther for longer(150+) anhyzers. I use it this disc some but it sort of overlaps my putters and cobras for anything shorter than I throw a roc on. If it doesn't beat in too much with practice use it may eventually be replacing my cobras as that mold (dx cobra) changes a lot run to run and I don't like relying on dx beat in rituals.

[BLURR]

I had a Champ Mako for all of about 5 minutes. Mine flew nothing like my Star Mako did. It was way more overstable(as much as a mako can be) when compared to my Star one. It was also really domey. I have not seen a flat Champ Mako yet, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. It's funny, I threw together a quick bag to go play a round before the sun went down yesterday. I thew in an Star Mako for shits and giggles. I had forgotten how straight that disc is.

[JHern]

The terminology debate is easily solved by dealing only with the terms "high speed stable" and "low speed stable". The word stable is a quagmire that means different things to different people and attempts to oversimplify a rather complex set of variables. My advice is to avoid it.

^^ This.

yeah, I can dig that...

True in spirit, indeed. It is worth noting that high speed and low speed stability are just two data points, and we could easily define a continuous scale of stability at all possible speeds (e.g., 1,2,3,4,5,6 MPH...). That is my present goal.

[jaydub803]

I had a Champ Mako for all of about 5 minutes. Mine flew nothing like my Star Mako did. It was way more overstable(as much as a mako can be) when compared to my Star one. It was also really domey. I have not seen a flat Champ Mako yet, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. It's funny, I threw together a quick bag to go play a round before the sun went down yesterday. I thew in an Star Mako for shits and giggles. I had forgotten how straight that disc is.

I agree on the more stable part at least when new but now I have used mine and beat it up for about a week straight and its getting to be my straight and soft right go to. SO easy to flip and keep right on a low line. My star would never keep any height for long on annies or hyzers. I use this in the woods where my light kc roc takes too long to curve right. Also been getting better throwing it straight up hills where I used to use the dart. I see this as the replacement to my dart and beadless aviar leaving my kc aviars to putt with. I'm happy as long as I have a roc of the right weight too.(heavy) I have also been working it right on shots as long as my champ panther or leopard would usually go but I think the more it wears in it won't hold that long any more. I'd love a flat firmer one at max weight, but right now I can't quit throwing what I have so...oh yeah I'm adding this I also sanded the flash off of mine and that helped the low speed speed fade drop a bit. Did the same to a md2 that is now butter but just like the star mako.

[jaydub803]

Well I lost my old disc this morning by leaving it in a basket (has my name and #, f'ing kids around here)I bought another used xout cfr mako today. I paid 4 dollars for it from a car trunk and I was able to get all the old ink and the gay looking stamp off with acetone and after looking at it with no stamp on top you can see a bit of a dimple in the flight plate. No part of the dome was taller than my definitely domey cfr mako in 176. This one ended up weighing 176 too even though it was marked 180. In short, it is definitely a better thrower than the domey one but it still fades left from a RHBH throw if it has too far to fall. I was throwing this with my pmd2 in a field and they were nearly the same in all respects, but a wind was knocking them both out of the air unless I threw hard and flat. I do like this disc better for anhyzers but I can flip it more easily than my star or the other cfr. If I had seen this dimple so clearly I would probably not have got this disc but it doesn't seem to wobble in flight or anything from it. I have champ rocs coming soon, so I will probably shelve most of my mids til the whim of those is gone, but I like this flat one for the annies a lot. As far as I can tell the md2 is the same flying disc.

[mikeskid]

bump

I'm stuck in KS for work for awhile with no mailing address and never seeing true daylight. But I couldn't swing a dead cat without running into a course, so I need glow. I throw Comets and Drones normally, but can't find a glow run of either. Has anyone given the Glow Mako a toss? If so, what are your thoughts?

[Billym]

Haven't tossed one but the ones I looked at were domey

[jubuttib]

Oh hay, thread necromancy!

So anyway, people still throwing the Mako? Especially the newer ones. Mainly asking because of two things: 1. I saw newer run Coyotes at the store and the wing is way more convex than it used to be. I was under the impression that pretty much the only difference between the Mako and the Coyote was the top, so do newer Makos have the convex wing also? 2. Someone claimed at some point that the MD2 was basically a small bead Mako, but those things have either totally flat or slightly concave wings, and if I recall correctly also blunter noses. Shed some light, anyone?

[zj1002]

the md2->mako comparisons were probably just side comments. they discs aren't similar, as you said the wing is different. I know they changed the coyote, but haven't inspected how much exactly(I would need to see an old one). As far as I know the mako is just a tweaked coyote, because the FR makos had "*CY" under the weight.

What type of flyer are you looking for?