Combining concepts

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Re: Combining concepts

Postby Blake_T » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:49 pm

mass yes, but to think about the disc as a hammer for backhand throwing in that way is incorrect.

for backhand throwing you have to throw it as if the head of the hammer is in the spot where i drew it, while there obviously isn't a hammer head or counterweight there. brad walker and i talked about this quite a bit and have both come to the agreement that the hammerhead out in free space is the correct idea.

or you could think about it as a hammer with an elongated and curved "back end". either way, you would throw it as if the hammer head is where i drew it in.

the hammer head at the opposite edge of the disc is true for sidearm and overhand throwing, but it is not correct for backhand throwing.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby zj1002 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:07 pm

I have to agree with Blake. Visualizing the hammer head where he drew has helped me more than having it turned in. It takes a bit of mental adjustment but if you can put it together in your throw. up until a week ago I had a really bad problem with pre-cocking the wrist. This has helped me in mentally keeping the wrist straight by thinking of the weight where the head would be.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby DiscJay » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:08 am

Awesome Jaboc83 and Blake. The redraw of the hammer by Blake finally made the translation of the stick/dowel throw to my disc throw finally click. Can't wait to get another video on her for y'all to critique. I think I have made big strides with my throw.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby garublador » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:11 am

Thank you both for doing those pictures. I'm very excited about how "snap" has been understood and described better on here lately and the more, different mediums and ways we have to describe it increase the chances of any one person understanding what's really going on. Even if the concepts in those pictures has been described before, presenting them in a slightly different way is extremely helpful.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby Jeronimo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:39 am

Blake_T wrote:mass yes, but to think about the disc as a hammer for backhand throwing in that way is incorrect.

for backhand throwing you have to throw it as if the head of the hammer is in the spot where i drew it, while there obviously isn't a hammer head or counterweight there. brad walker and i talked about this quite a bit and have both come to the agreement that the hammerhead out in free space is the correct idea.

or you could think about it as a hammer with an elongated and curved "back end". either way, you would throw it as if the hammer head is where i drew it in.

the hammer head at the opposite edge of the disc is true for sidearm and overhand throwing, but it is not correct for backhand throwing.


Ok, I figured as much. I just wanted to raise the question anyway for clarification. Your "pen-whipping" drill pretty much covers the way you drew the hammer anyway. I just find it interesting that according to this way of thinking you really have to conceptualize it because the way Jaboc drew it is the way you would "feel" it.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby jaboc83 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:00 am

Would there be a better way for me to draw it so that I can keep the "mass-hammer" and "conceptual hammer" ideas both in the diagram that is less confusing? I would probably say the "conceptual hammer" should remain an image of a hammer, and find a different way to indicate the weight. Maybe just a black dot on the edge of the disc??
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby zj1002 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:30 am

For yours just draw a thick line from your hand to the edge that is parallel to the disc. That was how brad walker used to explain it
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby Sean40474 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:04 am

This is great timing for this post as this is the part of my throw that I'm revisiting. It also clarifies a lot of the concepts that i've been trying to understand at this part of the throw.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby jaboc83 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:47 am

made some changes... Does this seem a little better?

Image
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby Parks » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:55 pm

Pretty tasty diagram you have there.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby Blake_T » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:20 am

i didn't really see the yellow writing when looking at it earlier but i'm going to have to think about the correct timing of that.

it's the "when" of that yellow arrow that is why 60% of disc golfers bork their throw by having craptacular shoulder rotation timing.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby Redisculous » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:47 pm

Thought:

Don't the shoulders pretty much have to stay still, or at least not be moving the arm until the angle between the upper and lower arm is 90 degrees or more? It just seems like otherwise they would just be fighting the extension of the lower arm. This is something I have been thinking about a lot lately, and I'd love to get some insight on it, whether it's correct or not.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby MrScoopa » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:03 pm

In the last frame I believe the elbow should be a little more bent(right between frame 2 and 3) and the shoulder just a tad more open. That's the snapshot in my mind where I grip hard and give it all I've got.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby rusch_bag » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:08 pm

Redisculous wrote:Thought:

Don't the shoulders pretty much have to stay still, or at least not be moving the arm until the angle between the upper and lower arm is 90 degrees or more? It just seems like otherwise they would just be fighting the extension of the lower arm. This is something I have been thinking about a lot lately, and I'd love to get some insight on it, whether it's correct or not.


When Beto stayed at my house he was talking about my form and he said I started my shoulder rotation to early and that I need to try to keep them still for another half second. So I think you are on the right track with that.
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Re: Combining concepts

Postby MrScoopa » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:34 am

There is a net little app called Pivot stick figure animator. Its freeware. It is perfect for mapping out the throw. The prigram allows for custom stick figures. I played around with it and was easily able to create a top down view of the throwing motion. The coolest part is you can have as many frames as you want in agiven time span. As a result you can show all those pauses like the elbow stop and shouldee pause! the less frames the quicker the movements appear. A slow down effect happens with more frames.

I did a quick version last night. It shows the pauses etc but i know it probably isnt 100% correct.

No more leet drawing skills needed with this app if anyone wants to take a wack at it!

I will post my version when i get off work
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