OB vs. Lost Disc

[Robin Hood]

At a tourney today I threw a disc that appeared to land in bounds but dangerously close to water. When we walked up we could not find my disc. It clearly went in the water but because there were trees blocking our view no one could say for sure it was in the water or not. Said water was crystal clear but there were roots and rock in the water that could obstruct a view of the black challenger I threw. Because we could not say for certain that it went in I played as if it did and provisionally retee'd to play it like a lost disc. Which rule is in play here? I can tell you if the water wasn't crystal clear the card would have agreed that I went OB even without seeing it actually go in. What is the call? Lost disc or OB?

[Itchy]

Sounds like this falls under the new unplayable lie/double jeopardy rule.

"The "unplayable lie" rule has been reformulated into an "optional rethrow" rule. It is now clear that penalty strokes are not added if the rethrow option is taken, so that double jeopardy is avoided."

http://www.pdga.com/rules/summary-of-rules-changes

lost disc = 1 penalty throw
OB = 1 penalty throw
no double jeopardy
So either way sounds like you take 1 penalty throw and then retee.

[Robin Hood]

But if it's an OB I can play from an approximate lie which I did and took a (3). If it's ruled as a lost disc I have to go and retee and when I did that I ended up with a 6. It can make a difference! I just want some clarification.

[Itchy]

If it was lost off the tee, I think it's +1 and retee. Unless the majority of the people on your card decide on where your approximate lie should be, then you play from there and add your stroke from the tee and +1 for the penalty of OB. Either way you (more like your card) choose one option and roll with it.

If it were me, I'd spend the 3 minutes helping you look for the disc, then call it lost. Retee with +1. Can't say for sure it's OB since you never found it. But, I'm no rules master.

[curt]

I thought there was a general understanding that when dealing with water, if it is reasonably assumed your disc is in the water, then you play as if it is. I could be wrong and have no rules to back me up though.

[MIdiscgolfer]

I believe it comes to a group decision. If it was agreed that the disc went in the water you play OB rules. If the group cannot aggre that it "must" have gone OB then you have to play the lost disc rule.

[Smigles]

Did you FIND your disc ?

If not, it is a lost disc.

At least that's what seems logical to me.

[mark12b]

Here ya go:

803.09A (cont.) In order to consider the disc as out-of-bounds, there must be reasonable evidence that the disc came to rest within the out-of-bounds area. In the absence of such evidence, the disc will be considered lost and the player will proceed according to rule 803.11B.

Also check out the clarification here: http://www.pdga.com/ob-one-can-know-thee

Sounds like you had reasonable evidence that the disc must have gone in the water, so it was right to treat it as OB, even though you couldn't find the disc.

[Robin Hood]

Well I got F'd out of 3 strokes......

[NOHalffastpull]

Know the rules,
don't be a dick.
strokes will be saved