Which models should be discontinued?

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Which models should be discontinued?

Postby twmccoy » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:37 pm

With so many new discs coming out all the time, it seems like its time to discontinue a few to make room for new models. The question is, in everyones opinion, which models should be discontinued? By discontinued I mean in all plastics and not produced ever again. Here are my choices.

Monster (too much like the firebird)
Cheetah (too much like the gazelle) Keep one or the other.
Beast (lets face it, the new mold is no good. The old one I'd keep though).
Roadrunner (too close to the sidewinder)

Venom (too close to the flick)
X clone
Cyclone 2
Wildcat (too much like the flash)
Reaper (too much like the talon)

Let's face it, all the new discs are making some of the old ones obsolete. These are just my opinions. I'm curious to see what discs other people think should be discontinued.
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Postby adidadg » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:38 am

IMO I say its better to have too many options than too few. Sure there are alot of similar discs out there but they may cater to peoples preferences. For example you are right that the Monster is similar to the Firebird, but i prefer the monster because of the wider rim (feels better for my forehand shots). Or someone looking for a slightly more stable eagle could get a teebird, and vice versa. just my .02

Postby discmonkey42 » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:02 am

I agree. For me, the Monster is a much better disc than the Firebird (goes out flat into the wind and then hyzers out at the end instead of hyzering the whole way like a Firebird).

Same with the Sidewinder and Roadrunner, I carry both and for very different shots.

All that being said, I agree there are way too many discs to choose from that in the end all fly similar to each other. I always thought the right solution to this would be a more detailed ratings system that evaluates more flight characteristics of the discs and thus shows more difference between discs.
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Postby trogdor » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:18 pm

Them are fightin' words!

Adidadg says it perfectly with "IMO". Discmonkey42 says it best with "For me"

Disc selection is a very personal issue. One man's "piece of (um...) plastic" is another man's "favorite disc"

What it boils down to is it's up to the manufacturer based on return on investment.

What is it about the new discs makes old ones obsolete? Because they are faster? Because they are further? The question here is obsolete based on what?

Is there a newer disc that is both slower and more overstable than the Whippet? If so, point me to it and I MIGHT agree that it is obsolete.

Is there a newer disc that is slower than a Birdie and has a Thumbtrac(R)? If so, maybe the Birdie is obsolete. (I don't like this disc, but I know others would feel lost without it.)

Waiting for Gremlin fans to chime in on this one!
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Postby Spencer Olson » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:08 pm

i love the whippet, theres nothing else like it.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:23 pm

is lightning a good answer?

(the rubber putter was nice for a bit, than there was something better...
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:51 am

half of the discraft models on your list have already been discontinued.

the downside of the ideas on this are that people generally list the slower discs, even though they are often better discs.

imo, there is much greater redundancy in newer models of discs than older, but there is a balance.

each disc's flight paths groups it into a similar category.

for example, i believe the sidewinder to be more closely related to the valkyrie in flight with a roadrunner more similar to a leopard, which would then differentiate them as a high speed understable low speed overstable disc vs. a high speed understable low speed neutral disc.

my problem is with how discs are discontinued. innova's process is more arbitrary while discraft's is based upon sales.

with newer, faster drivers coming out, the need for true fairway drivers will increase. i'm more concerned with discontinued models being brought back :P

if i get the time when i get back i will post my list of what i would discontinue
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Postby roadkill » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:13 pm

You have to realize disc manufacturers are in business to make money.

With each new disc release, there is the hype and the rush to buy and try the new model. Discs today are far less unique today than they were 20 yrs ago. There is tremendous disc overlap. However manufacturers will continue to run molds as long as they determine it remains profitable to do so. It's amazing how golf bags have become bigger and bigger.

In the 80's most people carried between 5 and 8 discs. It was hard to find a bag that would even hold more than 8 discs.

Today, many people carry 20-30 discs.

I agree with Blake in that the trend has been to make faster and faster discs. The overall trend is for more overstable beveled edged discs. I personally think some of the most valuable discs I've ever owned were slower, low tech, blunt nosed control discs. Newer players who only know the high tech disc era don't realize the value of a slower more "lidlike" disc.

At some point I think disc consumers will finally get their fill of superfast overstable plastic. Which will open the market to slower "floater" approach discs. I'd like to see an improved skystreak or super puppy type disc. Something I can throw from 200' and have sit within 15' after making a run chain high.
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Postby Pagan » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:26 pm

Variety is the spice of life.
I love having choices.

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Postby Weebl » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:29 pm

I really like the Banshee, whippet and the new beasts...
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:34 am

my list of discs that i would discontinue:

reaper. this disc was never popular and i would have rather seen it go than the x2. seems a more logical speed jump is x2 to predator than reaper to predator.

wolf. honestly, with the coyote out as well as a slew of slightly understable mids (panther, cobra, spider, etc.) this disc becomes redundant and has never been a particularly popular disc.

birdie. now that the polecat is back and generally preferred for a flat edged non-bevelled putter, it makes me ask why this disc is still around.

spirit or speed demon. the retools have left these discs nearly identical.

blaze or hybrid. imo, the hybrid is nearly identical to an h blaze... why the hybrid should exist when there still isn't a straight driver throwable by most players is a mystery.

apx or putt'r or rattler. 3 seems overkill for ultra-floaty putters that are super high speed understable and handle headwinds about as well as a geo metro on a hairpin turn.

viper or banshee or pegasus. the firebird and monster separate themselves, but these three do not. i believe there should be one slower overstable driver, but does there need to be three? my choice would probably be to let the banshee and pegasus go as the viper holds its place in history and has a much cooler hotstamp.

hawk. as long as the comet still exists, i would have rather seen the hawk go instead of the mrv as the mrv still has use for a lot of players (read as: it is high speed stable and versatile). add the d buzz, breeze and glide into the equation and a slightly understable old school mold with distinctly superior replacements doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

storm. tweener disc that just doesn't really work. not forviging with nose angles and not straight enough for the target demographic (newer players) and not predictable enough to work its way into bigger thrower's bags.

aurora ms. i like this disc as a beginner disc, but honestly, it's not stable enough for anyone with moderate power. if millennium is choosing to only have one midrange disc, i think something more stable is in order.

aero. i don't think i've seen anyone buy one of these since innova stopped marketing it as the "best all around disc" in ~2001.


discs i would like to see return:
dx big bead aviar driver (pre aviar-x mold)
xtra (if they drop the x-clone)
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Postby garublador » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:30 am

Blake_T wrote:spirit or speed demon. the retools have left these discs nearly identical.

I've been wondering why they've been doing this. I have a new E Speed Demon that flew like my new S Spirit, a new E Speed Demon that flies a broken in S Spirit and a E Spirit that's less overstable than any of those.
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Postby presidio hills » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:04 pm

Blake_T wrote:xtra (if they drop the x-clone)

i just got both of these from gottagogottathrow and i must say they are both awsome discs! the xtra is SO managable for a very overstable driver and the mrv is a rediculously straight disc that's easy to throw. i hope the stock doesn't run out too fast...
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Postby Smyith » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:41 pm

Beast (retool) - even the original champion of the beast (barry) doesn't like it. i still think that the orginal flies way farther.

reaper - look above to what blake said.

Theres really only one disc i want back:
Hawkeye - greatest midrange i have thrown (beats my roc in every aspect possible).

the Birdie is a great beginner putter and should stay for that one purpose.
the monster and firebird are really different and both should stay.
Last edited by Smyith on Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby presidio hills » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:13 am

Smyith wrote:the Birdie is a great beginner putter and should stay for that one purpose

the birdie was the first putter i ever got into. i remember being at the shop and thinking "this thing looks like it'll float and fly straight"... not the best putter, but i think you have a point. in a way it's really hard to throw, however... seems like it must be nose up to fly correctly. it does go straight, though.
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