Distance angles

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Distance angles

Postby limonsock » Sat May 14, 2011 9:45 am

Do any big armed throwers out there have advice on which types of throws they throw to get the most distance. When I was playing a lot last summer I was consistently putting my drives around 420' with an xg boss and a z/esp nukes. there have been those few throws though that soar to about 500+, all with different types of angles. I threw a 170ish pro Katana on a windless day about 500 that went high and held a gigantic anyhzer for the entire flight, hitting the ground before it had a chance to come back (im really curious how far it would have gone if it had time to come back!). Ive thrown my boss very far with annys, flat, and hyzers. My biggest problem is that I dont know which throws will consistently bomb. Also Ive been reading a lot about nose up vs nose down on here, and Im wondering how this affects distance throw (Im under the impression that nose means the part of the disc 90 degrees forward of your hand, the "front" when you are bringing the disc around on a huck).
Ive got a lot of time to practice field work right now because Im living in China and there isnt a single course in this gigantic country (Im currently talking to people trying to change this and spread the disc love with the locals).

On a slightly different note, do throwers in my range throw lighter discs or stick to max weights? Ive always gone for the heaviest discs available, although i've recently been bombing a 167 pro katana I found on a course last year.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby JR » Sat May 14, 2011 1:08 pm

I don't have your D but the world record toss was a 160s disc. I've heard different numbers about the exact weight but it was on the lower half. Ideally you would have the closest part of the disc to the target be lower than the rear. Thus the disc would dive forward and maintain speed better having good air time from height. Air time x average speed=distance.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby JHern » Sat May 14, 2011 6:01 pm

For maximum distance, you have to be able to turn the disc over so that it can run out its flight with a slightly nose down orientation after apex, so that it doesn't stall and fall. That's really all there is to it. But many side factors arise. This is all about your own abilities, the discs you are throwing, and other parameters on your throw (OAT/wobble, flex lines vs hyzer flip lines, etc.). In each case, the optimal angle will be different. If there is a strong wind up in the sky that you want to catch, that will also affect where you should aim to apex.

And I assume you're talking about just pure distance throwing, not disc golf. If you're playing disc golf, you also have to consider the propagation of errors into the size of the probable landing zone, etc.. You should throw hyzers for maximum control on landing accuracy. But hyzers are not maximum distance throws, and never will be. The best distance you could hope for on a hyzer line is throwing into a right->left+tail wind (if you're throwing RHBH), but this will decrease the accuracy and the disc could sail off or skip far from where you'd like to place it, so all benefit is lost anyways.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby zj1002 » Sat May 14, 2011 7:05 pm

When I got to watch GG throw distance at NCDGC he was throwing between 575-625ft with 150g DX Teerexs. He actually called the line a stall hyzer flip because of the extreme nose down. I couldn't understand Feldberg but he called it either a "n" flip or "end" flip in reference to the stall. He wasn't able to get a good stall flip with heavy or new discs. He said a couple times that the discs were too new when people gave them to him. He uses the climo grip as well, not a power grip. Lighter weight discs definitely will go farther on a stall flip. This throw yeilds more distance than the flex line. I think a lot of amateurs assume their flex lines and the same as the stall lines that guys like GG throw. It looks ver similar to someone that isnt familiar to the technique

I have thrown over 600ft when I hit the stall flip but I can rarely get it because I struggle with nose down. In distance contests I usually throw flex lines in the 500-550 range. From my experience with the Disc Nation testers the x-nuke goes really far on a flip stall. If I could do the NCDGC d-contest again I would throw some light X Nukes
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Re: Distance angles

Postby JHern » Sat May 14, 2011 7:30 pm

zj1002 wrote:When I got to watch GG throw distance at NCDGC he was throwing between 575-625ft with 150g DX Teerexs. He actually called the line a stall hyzer flip because of the extreme nose down...


This is poor terminology. I'll have to talk to these guys some more. The disc does not stall if it is capable of building more forward momentum after apex. Only a nose-up (relative to the trajectory direction of the flight, angle of attack) disc really "stalls." If the nose is flat or down relative to the trajectory throughout its flight, it never stalls.

And, when you're looking at it from the perspective of the thrower only, you're missing some of the perspective of the throw. For example, to the thrower the disc appears to stop in the sky, but in fact it is still moving away from them, though this is harder to perceive.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby zj1002 » Sat May 14, 2011 7:41 pm

I don't think they have an exact term. Feldberg and GG were trying to find terms to describe it too a bunch of amateurs that had never seen the line. Basically it is a nose down stall or maybe a dump over. It gets so much nose down that it dumps over at the apex and goes left to right before it stables out for the last 100ft or so

I understand why it can't be a stall because that means the disc should stop moving forward. If you think about the flight it does make an "N" shape. But "end" flip also makes sense because the back end lifts it over. I wish he had clarified the name a bit better
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Re: Distance angles

Postby Star Shark » Sun May 15, 2011 1:40 am

IIRC, Sandstrom's throw was 820' with a 164g DX Valkyrie. Avery broke this in warmups the day before Big D a couple years ago but as it wasn't in official competition, it doesn't count. It was 840' with a 165g DX Destroyer.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby limonsock » Sun May 15, 2011 6:26 am

So I realized the bests distance angle for me is a katana on an anny meant to go high which is released way too low and right, leading to a monster roller that went about 600' and hit a fence, three times; last one on purpose.


I also realized that after 9 months of not throwing drives, I've lost about 60' of power and it is royally pissing me off.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby Star Shark » Sun May 15, 2011 5:06 pm

Losing distance sucks. I've lost bost distance and accuracy lately. I either get the correct line or the correct power, not both at once. Before I was throwing my drivers 340-380 and exactly where I wanted them with only moderate effort. Now I'm struggling to get to 330 and I'm spraying them all over the place.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby limonsock » Sun May 15, 2011 7:36 pm

I havent even considered accuracy yet: Im living in china with no courses so field work is all Ive got and Ive been totally distance focused... I was putting focused until my basket broke, which takes all of the fun out of putting practice; shooting at tape on a tree just isnt the same...
Current bag is sloppy yet fun; Judges, comet, wasp, FD's, river?, saint?, PD's, Flow, D1, Nuke, ...
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Re: Distance angles

Postby Star Shark » Sun May 15, 2011 11:51 pm

Couldn't you get a DC Traveler or Sport from HeroDisc in Japan?
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Re: Distance angles

Postby limonsock » Mon May 16, 2011 1:12 am

^^^
Will look into this right now, thanks for the tip.
Current bag is sloppy yet fun; Judges, comet, wasp, FD's, river?, saint?, PD's, Flow, D1, Nuke, ...
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Re: Distance angles

Postby limonsock » Mon May 16, 2011 1:19 am

Way too expensive for my liking, 250 for a traveler before shipping and chinese import fees...
Current bag is sloppy yet fun; Judges, comet, wasp, FD's, river?, saint?, PD's, Flow, D1, Nuke, ...
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Re: Distance angles

Postby Sean40474 » Mon May 16, 2011 1:49 pm

Those of you that do throw far (500'+)....are you using distance angles to get these distances? What is your controlled golf D on a course? I know I have some form cleanup to do for sure, but I'm looking to get 450' - 475' on demand on a course w/o D lines.
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Re: Distance angles

Postby JHern » Mon May 16, 2011 9:17 pm

You can always break down a throw into smaller components for easier understanding. That is, a smaller throw for the last segment of the flight and another throw that gets the disc into the configuration needed to start that smaller throw that would complete the end segment. Putting the two together gets you the whole throw.

For example, throwing a big sky shot that apexes at 60' and then penetrates forward another 300' with a little fade can be broken down into 2 throws:
Throw A) A throw where the disc is released at 60' elevation, with a given speed, spin, orientation, etc., and travels 300' with a little fade.
Throw B) Throwing the disc to apex at 60' and getting the disc to have the exact same speed, spin, orientation, etc. at the apex as the starting conditions for throw A.
Getting B+A is all about getting B such that it makes A happen.

I'm sure you're familiar with throwing from elevation (with reference to leg A). You have to throw it with some speed, but not a lot, as long as you throw it down. If you get the nose down relative to the ground level, then the disc is much less likely to stall and fade. Too much nose down, though, and the disc will bury into the ground short. There is always an ideal nose angle for maximum distance. Spin obviously helps a great deal. Wind factors in the same way as it would for the complete throw.

Now, realize that your ability to put B+A together is limited, and in understanding these limits and balancing them you can optimize your distance. You obviously will not have as much speed as you'd like going into leg A, and certainly not as much as you'd have available if you were starting from A and throwing as hard as you'd like. So you have to work with what you have. The higher you throw at apex, the worse this is, since you're trading off kinetic energy with gravitational potential energy. Also, dissipation from drag is strongest on leg B, when the disc is moving fastest, which is going to take its toll. Controlling the nose angle at apex precisely is almost impossible, which is why anything over 550' or so is part luck.

limonsock wrote:Way too expensive for my liking, 250 for a traveler before shipping and chinese import fees...


Gotta love it, China makes a killing off of other countries who lower or drop their import fees for Chinese products...
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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