What do you see?

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What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:58 pm

Got out and managed to get some video with the phone. Here is one of my better throws that I caught. The basket is 306' and kind of a low shot so its not quite 100% power. I max out around 350' if I got plenty of room to work with. I might post more if i figure out how to edit them on my phone.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... d5d616.mp4
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Re: What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:30 pm

This is probably the best one I managed to catch. The phone/camera is hard to manage since it's on top of my bag half the time. This one went 300 straight with a Polaris ls.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... 4ae51a.mp4
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Re: What do you see?

Postby JR » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:56 pm

For more power reach back fully that is back toward the target both toes facing away from the target. You didn't turn the shoulders to the right of neutral before the rip. Taking faster x steps and some steps before the x step creates more potential. It takes body control and muscle power and good timing to not lose distance and eventually gain distance this way. You need to do it at some point in your career so now is a good time because your basics are ok.

See if you get any difference by keeping the disc closer to the right pec moving the elbow a little more toward the target before you straighten the arm from the elbow. Concentrating on the elbow opening speed.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:07 pm

JR wrote:For more power reach back fully that is back toward the target both toes facing away from the target. You didn't turn the shoulders to the right of neutral before the rip. Taking faster x steps and some steps before the x step creates more potential. It takes body control and muscle power and good timing to not lose distance and eventually gain distance this way. You need to do it at some point in your career so now is a good time because your basics are ok.

See if you get any difference by keeping the disc closer to the right pec moving the elbow a little more toward the target before you straighten the arm from the elbow. Concentrating on the elbow opening speed.


Dude you totally broke my throw.... lol! I tried and it really jacked my timing up bad just trying to do such a simple tweak. Out of about 3 hours of trying I really only feel i got close to doing it right a handful of times. No crazy long throws but got some out there with what felt like a lot less effort and a much better snap. It's going to take some time.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby JR » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:34 am

It will almost always take a lot of time to see which version works the best for you and to manage to throw correctly for any given version. Let alone more. That is why so many draw odd conclusions. Two tosses don't always tell the truth especially if you didn't throw the way you thought you did. Perseverance is usually rewarded. Until then it's a bitch to tweak forms. Too many just give up early. And miss out on at least gaining knowledge. Maybe even improvements.

You had positive results in the first session, you're lucky!!! That is a great start because feeling a better snap is the first step toward hitting it big. You need to know what to look for and what to change to make it even bigger. For tournaments and concentrated exercising, such as many field sessions per week, reduced energy usage helps a lot and that is great news for control drives. Congratulations!
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby Ironhide » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:09 am

I was kind of in your situation where I had no reach back and when I tried to add it my current throw it didn't work. What I did that seemed to help, was break it back down to just standing in one spot and reaching back and throwing. Once I seemed to have that down, then I added a few steps, etc.. Eventually got back to my natural run up with 'near' full reach back. Just need to re-teach your body to work together a different way.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Sun May 01, 2011 5:36 pm

More success. I am back up to my normal distance with much less effort. Ive put in roughly 9 hours of heavy field practice and it is slowly coming together. No great distance gains but I have gotten a few "did I do that" throws here and there. Played my first actual round in two weeks today and it felt pretty good. Not the best score I have ever had but very consistent. Getting closer to the chest and getting my elbow forward more before opening up seems to be having a fairly positive effect to my upshots as well. I definitely feel a lot more potential on my drives. A few more weeks of this and I hope to have it incorporated to at least feel more natural so I can tweak from there.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby JR » Sun May 01, 2011 10:44 pm

Upshots were the first indication of difference with elbow forward close to the chest throws for me. I was able to keep the muscles much looser and gain even more speed and D with less effort. Later on i learned to control muscles differently and give more oomph in the end (snapping better but still half hitting only at this point). In time the same transitioned to drives. Elbow forward close to the chest also made it easier for me to pull in a straight line toward the target more consistently after a while in approaches and control drives so that may be even more important than D gains.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Sat May 21, 2011 8:54 pm

its been a month since the op and strange things are still afoot with my throw. I have done about 4-8 hours field practice each week. I still feel like the feel/snap is continuing to improve but all this tweaking seems to have givin me a big nose up problem with anything faster than my buzzz. When I get what feels like a good rip with any of my drivers they gain a lot of altitude, and keep gaining with the apex being almost at the very end of the flight (on a 300-320ish throw). My mids and slower seem to be having a proper flight though, with the apex closer to the middle. I was putting my buzzz out 250' with ease and pretty tight accuracy, and hit 300' (same distance Im getting with my drivers) quite a few times. even managed to hyzer flip my meteor over 300' a few times. my putter drives (wizards) are getting extremely accurate out to about 200' and even managed to get a of those out to 250'ish as well. I am not sure if it is just mental or what but I feel like I am getting way stronger snap/hit when I throw the slower discs.

I know slow discs are less nose angle sensitive, but the difference is so extreme is seems like it must be something I am doing really wrong. I have tried moving the thumb in and out, ect.. nothing. Its either 40'+ high in the last 10' of flight or I overthink it and its straight into the ground. lol Suggestions welcome, or just point me to the proper nose down thread.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby Apothecary » Sat May 21, 2011 8:59 pm

just put your nose down.

why do you need a whole thread to tell you that?
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Re: What do you see?

Postby JR » Sun May 22, 2011 12:48 pm

Swel do you push your wrist down in the end and pull the disc at a constant height from the ground on flat ground? If not wrist mobility and strength exercises should help in pushing the wrist down.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Sun May 22, 2011 4:18 pm

i guess i need to take some new video. I am not exactly sure what you mean by pushing the wrist down in the end. If you mean down like bending it from the plane of my forearm then no. I have a gyroball, airbrush 40 hours a week, and been playing guitar for 20+ years so flexibility and muscle control in my hands is pretty good. I wouldnt say my grip strength is crushing but its not weak.

anyway I played league tags today + a casual round and was doing pretty well. I am starting to think the nose up on faster drivers is likely being caused by me just plain trying to hard when I am trying to max D. I was having more success with the drivers today and I am pretty sure it's because I just stopped analyzing every motion and played.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby Aaron_D » Mon May 23, 2011 1:10 am

The biggest thing I see is a lack of acceleration. You timing and positions are all pretty good. Try staying more relaxed and loose during the reach back and even as you start your pull. Concentrate on your pull and make sure you aren't going 100% as your start your pull but build your acceleration slowly and dont reach 100% full power until right before--or actually right after the hit.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby swel304 » Mon May 23, 2011 7:17 am

I really need to makE more video. Lol. Acceleration through the hit is one of the things I'm definitely feeling more of. I even got a few comments on it at the last couple leagues. I'll try to get a new vid out this week.
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Re: What do you see?

Postby JR » Mon May 23, 2011 9:01 am

You're in for a treat :-) You should definitely push the wrist down so that the disc is aligned or about with the forearm bones only on a lower plane. When the wrist moves from cocked back to neutral the bones of the wrist raise the hand. If you hyper spin that is move the hand right of neutral just before the rip and push down then the bones aren't in the way and it's easier for muscle power and flexibility constraints to get the wrist down. Timing is terribly difficult though. Terribly. So maybe having some effort earlier might help too. Say for example when you start to resist the bending back of the wrist you could simultaneously start to bend the hand down. That is a time when the muscles in the arm start to do a lot of work anyway and the stiffening muscles will cause more internal resistance to moving as fast as possible. So maybe that timing doesn't hurt a lot. No idea because that is a problematic area of form for me. I'm trying to learn this myself. I mean i can push the wrist down but optimal timing and force etc. require a lot of work. And usually when i need a low line drive under head height i push down early and get the resulting muscle stiffness and reduced arm speed.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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