Follow thru question

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Follow thru question

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed May 25, 2011 12:12 pm

So while checking out DGM 81, there is a guy who putts and during his follow thru he gently balances himself against a tree from falling forward on his putt. That is a rules violation right?

pertinent video (the putt is between 12:20 and 12:30):

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Re: Follow thru question

Postby ArcheType » Wed May 25, 2011 12:27 pm

I'd say yes.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby emiller3 » Wed May 25, 2011 12:36 pm

If that tree is in front of his lie, then yes. I can't tell from the angle. If it's behind his lie, I think it's ok.

"A follow-through after a putt that causes the thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation."

As an aside, I see lots of people balancing on one foot while picking up their marker after a putt and never touching the ground behind the lie with the back foot. As long as the group deems the person to have "full control of balance", this is ok, right?
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby clard » Wed May 25, 2011 12:43 pm

I think that in this case it doesn't matter whether the tree is in front of or behind his lie since he is using it to keep himself from falling forward. This means that he did not regain balance after the putt (without outside assistance).
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby Apothecary » Wed May 25, 2011 12:49 pm

looks to me like the point of contact (hand on tree) was behind the lie and he used the extra support point to demonstrate full control of balance.

i wouldnt call him on it.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby emiller3 » Wed May 25, 2011 12:49 pm

But if that outside assistance is behind his lie, I don't see anything in the rules to disallow it. What if he dragged his back foot along the ground behind his lie, or caught a downed tree with his back foot to keep him from falling forward? Or put his off hand on the ground behind his lie to catch himself from falling forward on a kneeling putt?

I'm still trying to learn the rules, I could be wrong.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby ArcheType » Wed May 25, 2011 12:51 pm

While he didn't go past his lie, I still wouldn't call that "maintaining balance."

If he were to pick up his back foot then stumble backwards after putting, he wouldn't be maintaining balance, but he wouldn't have went forward. Wouldn't that still be a falling putt?
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby Apothecary » Wed May 25, 2011 12:56 pm

ArcheType wrote:While he didn't go past his lie, I still wouldn't call that "maintaining balance."

If he were to pick up his back foot then stumble backwards after putting, he wouldn't be maintaining balance, but he wouldn't have went forward. Wouldn't that still be a falling putt?


he would demonstrate full control of balance when he came to rest on the ground, behind his lie. in your example, that would not be a falling putt.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby mark12b » Wed May 25, 2011 2:35 pm

"Maintaining balance" during the putt isn't actually part of the rule, see 803.04:
The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

And "falling putt" only matters if it is forwards. Also from 803.04:
A follow-through after a putt that causes the thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation.

Here's a relevant FAQ: http://www.pdga.com/faq/rules-questions ... le-putting

So, if that part of the tree was behind his lie, then touching it was no problem. If it was in front of his lie then he could have been called for a falling putt.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby Pironix » Wed May 25, 2011 4:30 pm

mark12b wrote:"Maintaining balance" during the putt isn't actually part of the rule, see 803.04:
The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

And "falling putt" only matters if it is forwards. Also from 803.04:
A follow-through after a putt that causes the thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation.

Here's a relevant FAQ: http://www.pdga.com/faq/rules-questions ... le-putting

So, if that part of the tree was behind his lie, then touching it was no problem. If it was in front of his lie then he could have been called for a falling putt.


I was thinking the same thing.... wonder if this holds true if he was BESIDE the tree. While the point of contact is behind the same object extends in front of his lie.

I know it's not in the same area but with the rule changes this year around moving objects that are in front of your lie AND in your runup being ok it makes me wonder...
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby isobar » Thu May 26, 2011 6:36 pm

2006.18 : Maintaining balance while putting

Question - "I have a good rules question for you involving the stance rules. A player uses an object (in this case a branch) behind him to maintain balance for a putt. First, would this be considered "full control of balance"? Second, could you argue, if the branch is not so large that the players body weight will not move it, that it is a violation of 803.03 D and or 803.04 A because they could have moved the branch less by not hanging on it? Thanks for any input."

Response - The question can be boiled down to: Can a player hold on to an object behind his lie to maintain balance while throwing/putting?
Applicable rules: 803.04 (Stance), 803.05 (Obstacles and Relief), 804.05 (Disqualification and Suspension)

Discussion - The rules do not require that you maintain your balance while putting. You can have a grand mal seizure as long as you don't step ahead of your lie. At the time you decide to step ahead of your lie is when you have to demonstrate balance. This is simply to prove that you are not committing a falling putt, such that you would not be able to stop yourself from falling forward due to the motion of your putt. Grabbing a branch is merely acquiring another support point, which is perfectly legal, as long as it is not ahead of your lie.
Holding on to something BEHIND your lie is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the tree that the golfer is using as a supporting point is in-bounds (803.03.A (3)). The branch must not be moved, or else the player would be in violation of one or both of 803.04.D and 803.05.A, which require you to take the stance that results in the least movement of objects that are part of the course and which prohibit you from moving a branch to "make room for a throwing motion".

Conclusion - A player can hold on to something behind her lie, in certain circumstances, without violating the PDGA rules. In general that which is not prohibited by the PDGA rules is allowed, provided of course, that the action done by the player is not considered "a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play". (This, of course, is cheating!)
Other Comments - Many members of the committee have actually tried to hold on to some object behind their lie, while leaning forward to throw or putt. In our opinion this action makes the ensuing throw/putt MORE difficult to accomplish.


This is directly from the PDGAQ&A pdf.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby Smigles » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:38 am

I'd totaly call him on it.
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Re: Follow thru question

Postby money 21 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:00 pm

looks like a good put to me as long as the tree is behind the lie.
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