I would like to politely discuss discspeed's disc mod

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I would like to politely discuss discspeed's disc mod

Postby Apothecary » Sat May 28, 2011 8:44 am

discspeed wrote:
discspeed wrote:Speaking of Vectors....Well, after several months of trying to get one of these bad boys to lose some stability "naturally" I give up. Last night I started beating the crap out of one of my Vectors. I threw it point blank at a dead tree a few dozen times, rubbed it hard on some rough cement, and flexed it in half several times. After all of this it still sits perfectly flat on the table, but it's definitely roughed up. I'll see today if it made any difference in flight...I'm pretty sure it will because it seemed to be flying straighter even on putts in my back yard.

I like my overstable Vectors, but I just don't get to throw them that much. If I get one to lose some HSS it will be much more useful as a "touch" flex shot disc...It will also fill the current gap in my bag between my broken in Buzzz and my overstable Vector.



I got to throw my altered Vector some tonight. I was playing a competitive round so I didn't get to test it a lot, but I must say that so far I'm happily surprised with the results. I figured it would only be slightly less stable than my newer ones, but I managed to break it in a whole step. From what I saw tonight it now has the HSS of an average flat Z Buzzz with a slightly earlier and more dramatic fade. Now it really does feel like a Buzzz/Roc hybrid, flying with the speed of a Buzzz on a more Roc-like flightpath. It also REALLY brought the glide out of the disc. It visibly floats more at low and medium speeds now...I think roughing up the bead and the wing all around on cement has had a much larger effect than the tree impacts and bending of the disc on the flight differences. I sanded the rough spots, but it still has a much more matte-like texture now rather than being completely smooth.

Anyway, I can't wait to throw this disc some more. It seems to be much closer to what I want out of a versatile stable midrange...Now I can test is as such and evaluate it's usefulness in a more used slot in my bag than the more overstable Vectors.


what do the rules say?

from 802:

C. Players may not make post-production
modification of discs which alter their original
flight characteristics.
This rule does not forbid
inevitable wear and tear from usage during play
or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth
molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs
excessively sanded
or painted with a material
of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections
802.01 D, E and F


seems like discspeed is going against the letter and the spirit of the rule to me. what say you? would you let him throw this disc in a tourney?
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby rusch_bag » Sat May 28, 2011 9:01 am

Nah its fine to me. I do the same stuff to discs all the time. If you lose a disc in premium plastic that is perfectly beat in, it could take you years to get one back to that point. A little extra help with that process isn't really doing anything wrong to me. Also, with how he is describing what he did, he was basically doing things that occur in your normal rounds of disc golf just in a more efficient more repetitive way. I draw the line once you start doing things do discs that can't happen during a normal round of golf. Bending, scraping, and hitting objects are all fine with me, but that is about it. Heat is another issue. I am fine with using heat to flatten or dome up a disc, melt a piece of peeling plastic back on. Using heat to change the thickness in the plastic in certain areas, change the rim configuration, or anything along those lines is too far for me.
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Apothecary » Sat May 28, 2011 9:11 am

if you are doing something...ANYTHING...to alter the flight characteristics of a disc, technically it is illegal.

is it a silly rule? yes. am i being hyper-technical about the rules? i dont think so. seems clear as day that to artificially beat up a disc so it flies more "seasoned" is to break 802.c.
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby rusch_bag » Sat May 28, 2011 9:17 am

Next time I do it, I will start at hole 1 and throw towards the brick wall I use to throw at until I get stuck behind it and keep trying to throw through it for you. Once I am content with my disc I will learn to throw away from the wall and then go finish out the hole. Would that be ok with you since I am just playing a hole?
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Apothecary » Sat May 28, 2011 9:38 am

its not me you should be concerned with. its the rules.

rusch let me axe you another question: would you stroke yourself for a moving mini? a foot fault?

i would. want to know why? i know and respect the rules and the game.
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby rusch_bag » Sat May 28, 2011 9:46 am

I follow all of the rules as to how I interpret them. If they are not clear enough, that is not my fault. To answer your question, yes, I would call myself on a foot fault or any other violation that I broke. I do not feel I am breaking any rules with breaking a disc in using an accelerated process.
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Apothecary » Sat May 28, 2011 9:51 am

so do you concede that grinding down the bead to change the flight characteristics outside of regular golf play is illegally modifying the disc?
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby ArcheType » Sat May 28, 2011 10:03 am

It depends what you consider regular golf play. I've gotten bored at my local course and tried throwing skip shots off the walking path and into a practice basket there. I'm sure it did a good bit to beat up the disc, but I was playing a game. Does that count as illegal too?
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Apothecary » Sat May 28, 2011 10:19 am

seems legal to me, as you were not explicitly trying to beat your discs in to change their flight characteristics.

dicking around throwing skip shots at a practice basket ≠ grinding the bead down on the pavement or throwing them against the wall to get them to act "seasoned."
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Leopard » Sat May 28, 2011 11:57 am

14 separate disc golfers are about to sponsor a team for each of their new disc skipping businesses
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Re: Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby zenn0913 » Sat May 28, 2011 12:01 pm

Apothecary wrote:so do you concede that grinding down the bead to change the flight characteristics outside of regular golf play is illegally modifying the disc?


How are you going to prove this? I think this hole subject is silly. You might as well say you can play with your oldest beat driver because it doesnt fly like it used to.

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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby jcf5083 » Sat May 28, 2011 12:29 pm

Every time I see someone at a tournament with a beat in disc I ask them if they could prove if it is beat in naturally, you mean you guys don't?



:/
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Flipflat » Sat May 28, 2011 2:32 pm

Haven't we discussed this before? Someone link that veganray thread. I think Chuck had brought up some good points, but can't remember what he said.

Also, calling someone a scumbag when you don't even know them is pretty shitty.
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Re: Is this scumbag throwing an illegal disc?

Postby Flipflat » Sat May 28, 2011 2:43 pm

Speaking of rules, here's some rules that Blake wrote for these forums way back in 2004:

Blake_T wrote:Due to a request, i whipped up some forum rules.

#1. don't be a jerk (unless it's obviously in fun).

there shouldn't need to be any other rules. basically, just think about what you are saying, doing, and how it can affect others. no trolling, no smearing, no bs. it should be simple. if you are going to come up with some highly controversial topic, feel free to debate it into the ground but don't personally attack anyone for disagreeing with it. it's probably best to exercise judgment/restraint and if you want to talk about politics, abortion, religion, etc. i suggest you take it to a forum about politics, abortion, religion, etc.

if you can't follow the rule(s), some admin will likely lock/delete the thread and/or warn/ban a user. i trust the judgment of the admins and don't care how they use/abuse their power. they do a lot of work for free and put up with tons of BS to do what they do and i appreciate their help.
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Re: I would like to politely discuss discspeed's disc mod

Postby Frank Delicious » Sat May 28, 2011 4:03 pm

1) edited title b/c ya know, calling discspeed a scumbag is pretty dumb and makes me think this topic is more a personal attack than an actual discussion

2) flipflat, no need to backseat mod. Just hit the report button.

3) this subject is dumb b/c there is no way to prove someone wore in a disc naturally or not (except when they admit it like this)

4) this subject is dumb in general.
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