Maxing out @ 300ft...

[seabas22]

Pretty much, its showing you that you can move your hand faster limp than trying to strong arm the throw.

[dehaas]

Awesome, is it common for the feeling to not be as noticeable with your elbows out? I would imagine that since the entire arm isn't being used in the whipping motion that there is less force being exerted?

[seabas22]

Yea, it's experiencing less centripetal force hinged at the elbow.

[JR]

I hope I'm not causing more confusion, Fanter, but I understand the "pull" as referenced on here to be from or just past the right pec through the snap/hit, not from reachback to the pec area. I believe JR is saying that some people can get the disc from reachback to the right pec simply by hip/torso/shoulder roatation, where he and myself, have to kind of guide the disc to the right pec area by moving the elbow forward as we begin to rotate. That is not the "pull". It is not until I planted my right foot and my shoulders start opening towards the target that I really pull hard through the hit then follow through.

This although i have futzed around with different timings as well. For the first time in my career i can get almost the same D from hard arm pull after the pull as with late acceleration.

[aDave]

in an attempt to break the 350' plateau, I've been working
the right pec drill. i can't seem to get any power out of it
without oat. any ideas?

[colombo117]

I have been stuck at 300-330 with teebirds for a while, but today I went out to a soccer field and I was throwing them consistently to 370. My rocs were hitting 320 and it was awesome. I am stuck on an island, literally, and only brought my rocs and teebirds to throw in a field for the next few weeks, and already my distance is improving.

I have been slowing down my run-up, reaching back more, squeezing the hell out of the disc at the hit, and accelerating hard. Thanks DGR.

[LYang]

A couple of questions have popped in my head as of lately.

If I understand correctly, there are two shoulder turns. One from 180 to 90 and then the other from power zone onward. My mind needs clarification on if all shoulder rotation is passive? (Since actively turning shoulders destroys the fluidity of the throw??? or is there a time where it assists the throw??) Currently, I am rotating hips to 90 which then rotates torso and shoulder. Once chop ensues I am accelerating with the forearm and letting the momentum turn the shoulder.

[JHern]

A couple of questions have popped in my head as of lately.

If I understand correctly, there are two shoulder turns. One from 180 to 90 and then the other from power zone onward. My mind needs clarification on if all shoulder rotation is passive? (Since actively turning shoulders destroys the fluidity of the throw??? or is there a time where it assists the throw??) Currently, I am rotating hips to 90 which then rotates torso and shoulder. Once chop ensues I am accelerating with the forearm and letting the momentum turn the shoulder.

Going from 180 to 90 happens as you step onto your plant foot, and is more incidental. During this time, you're also bringing the disc in from behind to the chest area, but this is just fluid and relaxed part, and the arm is not really accelerating just yet. Once at 90 degrees, the arm is going relaxed into the power zone and then you will consciously pull your shoulder around (actually your torso is doing the work) at the last moment to add power to the whip.

[JR]

Like John wrote but you are gonna lose some power generation if you do not turn the shoulders actively just before the elbow chop. That shoulder turn is a part of the kinetic chain that goes in order from down to up from the toe to the disc pivot. When you turn the shoulders actively prior and during the elbow chop starting the turn at around the right pec position you add acceleration to the rotation which bends the wrist back and at some point of the elbow chop resists it and at the end adds to it. That is concentrating the acceleration of the disc late in the throw. The mechanism how the elbow chop is at first retarded comes from the fact that everything the lower body does is turning you to the right and accelerating the elbow to shoulder area forward. That is a force that has an equal and opposite force. You may know that from physics and Newton.

At some point in the elbow chop once the elbow is straight enough the lever of the straightening arm multiplies the force you of the rotation. By that time the arm is swinging in such a wide arc and the muscles in the upper arm are in the middle of their motion range where they are the strongest. That leads to even more acceleration and bending back of the wrist from the equal and opposite force acting on the wrist, hand and the disc. It is crucial to be at stiff resisting of the bending back of the wrist already at this time. Because it happens so fast and people have slow reaction times the command to resist the bending back of the wrist has to leave the conscious mind earlier. When depends on your reaction time, nerve speed and how fast different body parts work and which parts of your form are quicker than the others etc. So you need to experiment to find your personal optimum for now. That may change with form changes and as your muscle power and speed changes in different parts of the body. Annual checkups are quick to do and don't detract from the fun IMO.

The turning of the shoulders actively late in the throw gives me around 6-10' extra but i can't hold on to the disc long enough. Some add snap and spin by pulling back the arm after the disc has started to pivot. There the shoulder turn can help too. But i don't think i have seen anyone mention which body parts exactly they use and when and how to pull back on the disc. Re bending the elbow back after it is almost straight certainly adds a lot of spin. With worse muscle power and speed than now i took high speed cam footage of stand still arm alone throws without pulling back the elbow after the arm had straightened and with it. IIRC the difference was 7 to 11 revolutions per second. If the same ratio could be maintained in a full speed drive the difference would be huge. Discs would shoot out much faster with way way more spin making the flight much more HSS and less LSS. I can't do the elbow pulling back trick at much more than 260' i think with drivers. Mids go almost the same D. My arm ain't fast enough and my wrist and grip probably fail too. I suck at stopping the wrist to launch a perfect disc pivot.

[douglas78]

I started playing in 2010 memorial day weekend. I've been hooked and been playing ever since. Since I started playing I've gotten better and my distance has improved but not greatly. I can consistantly get out to 330' to 350' on most open drive with the occasional 400' downhill tailwind drive. I normally throw TB's and leopards for shorter drives but throw destoyer and or pro katana for wide open shots where placement isn't as much an issue.

I guess my question is i need your opinion. My current set-up before my drive is to stand at the bottom right-hand corner of the pad standing sideways. my shoulder facing the hole. My arm up level with my chest and the disc close to my left breast/nip. When i step up to drive, I step towards the left then down the center of the pad reaching straight back and then foward.

I 've seen alot of bigger arms and top players at my club doing almost the same thing but reaching slightly left and lower and then bringing it close through the pull through.

Would this be what I'm missing?

Thanks for your time

doug

[JR]

It's not absolutely mandatory that you lose anything if your flexibility is enough. One place where you certainly lose distance _potential_ is not reaching back farther. You may need to point both toes farther away from the target to do that. It is very possible that you might lose distance from losing control and perhaps balance at first. In time when you get used to the positions and timing change and how you need to use the muscles differently to keep the rhythm and balance you should see distance gains. It may take months but will be worth it in the long term.

[JHern]

Humans have a knee-jerk response to add more gas to processes when they aren't working as well as they would like. We also think that maybe more "umph" would help, and we end up in a spiral of diminishing returns. If a car is running poorly, the answer isn't to add more gasoline (unless it's out of gas). If the economy is running poorly, the answer isn't tax cuts (unless it's out of cash). And if you're not throwing as far as you think you can, then the answer isn't more muscle (unless you're not trying at all). What usually needs to happen to improve all these situations are structural improvements, which would then allow the machinery to operate more efficiently and be capable of producing better results with less effort.

Everybody can typically improve up to 350'-ish distance, and maybe the occasional flirtation with 400'. Going further requires some major fine-tuning. Don't try to throw farther with your muscle effort, it won't work. Try to channel, in a relaxed way, everything you do into that final moment of violence, when everything comes together in the blink of an eye, that's where you want to be. The right pec drill is just a way to get you there. Reaching back farther just forces your body to go through more motion, which, if everything else is working properly, will generate more distance.

[fanter]

Going from 180 to 90 happens as you step onto your plant foot, and is more incidental.

You said this about the shoulders, but is it true for the hips, too?

[seabas22]

Going from 180 to 90 happens as you step onto your plant foot, and is more incidental.

You said this about the shoulders, but is it true for the hips, too?

Kinda...it's difficult to explain in words, but it's the same as ball golf. The front foot/heel plants/braces to initiate the relaxed downswing into the power zone. This bracing the front side of the heel through the hip and shoulder stops the hip and re-directs/clears the front hip out of the way as power comes through the rear side.

[Porsche320]

I've been slowly incorporating the techniques in this thread with generally good results. On my own, I developed a 260' throw. Some time working on wrist flexibility moved me up to 280 with an occasional 290 in a mild headwind. Last time I played, I worked a little towel-drill (making the towel snap forward rather than in a circle) and that reinforced stopping the wrist abruptly at the end of the throw. On my first drive I threw an EagleX past a 290' goal and deep into the bushes behind it. Every disc I picked up went 10% further. My doubles round was weak because I had to disc-down to Leopards on most holes, and I'm not as good with them (couldn't get the hyzer angle right; I was turning them over more with the increased snap/distance). I didn't really have a need to use my "real" drivers.

Not bragging, just highlighting the importance of stopping the wrist.

Now to work on my nose angle and OAT issues