FH for midrange?/general help

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FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Conan the Disctroyer » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:01 am

Hey guys, I'm new to this board...started playing the game last spring and really getting into it just this summer. I play regularly at Dr Discgolf in Orrington ME, and Woodland Valley in Limerick ME.

I'm Forehand Dominant because its more comfortable for me, but also because I have a plate in my shoulder and it seems to get aggravated when I throw more than a couple backhands a day. I may throw one or two backhands in 3 games.

Basically my FH caps out at under 300' with any disc. I also can't seem to throw the really overstable discs with enough spin to make them do what they should be doing. I've been throwing a 163g starfire with success, and using a discraft Xpress for anhyzers.

The problem I'm running into is, I don't have a good midrange shot. I've been trying to throw my Rhyno FH for midrange but the deep rim makes it get caught on my first knuckle pretty often. I don't have a good midrange, but trying to throw my Xpress midrange is unpredictable. I've basically been either throwing extremely long putts, turbo putting, or whater. My question is, do people usually throw midrange forehand if they're forehand dominant? Is it a bad idea? My throwing style is to basically cock my wrist back, take a few small steps forward (mostly for rythm, not an Xstep), plant my front foot, pivot my rear foot, try to drive through with my hips and snap my wrist hard. I use a split power FH grip. Works good for driving, but trying to do that for midrange is just unpredictable. I either put too much on it and overshoot, or sissy throw it and flutters off.

Any advice? Should I force myself to BH midrange? If not, what are some good FH midrange. Also, what are some good FH drivers I should be trying? I've heard the Flick is great, but I tried it and it was too overstable for me. Thanks in advance.
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:13 am

The power grip for Mids doesn't work very well for me either, and most people don't recommend it anyway. Avery shows his Midrange sidearm grip here:http://www.averyjenkins7495.com/2009/06/01/disc-golf-grips/ I've also seen many people spread the index finger back more towards the center of the disc if you need more flight plate support.

As for FH midrange DISCS, I know a lot of people like the Buzzz. The flat top is usually a good feel for most forehand grips, I liked the grip on it for FH better than my Rocs, but I liked the flight of my Rocs more.

Another thing is you probably have to back off on your FH's some. Mid's typically can't take a lot of snap forehand for me and will flip and burn a lot easier. I have to concentrate on making it a smooth throw with more wrist snap than arm speed. A clean release is also key, and is much easier for me with the grip linked above than a power grip for my mids.

Where injuries are involved, I never recommend FORCING anything.. If the plate makes the BH throws uncomfortable don't do it. Or at least only do it when NEEDED (emergency shots) as you feel the shoulder can take it.

Edit: Also if you're struggling with over stable discs forehand, you may be using your wrist snap incorrectly. Two videos that demonstrate this best for me are from Mark Ellis (who is FH dominant as well, a Discraft Pro, a great teacher, and is on these boards and may chime in for lots of help) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOECjLjhiTI&t=1m30s (the whole video is good, this just jumps you to the part about grips and wrist snap. And then there's also Dave D. here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa8QHevIGKs
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Conan the Disctroyer » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:20 am

Thanks for the reply.

Maybe It'll clean itself up when I get a good midrange. Right now I use my Xpress as such and if I don't put that force on it I find that its just way too unpredictable. My Rhyno doesn't have that problem, but then its like a 25% chance of it catching on me. If people do throw FH mids then I will certainly go down to a field today and try out that Grip. Its hard to tell in the picture though exactly what he's doing. Is his point pad on the rim like power grip, or no? It doesn't look like he's putting his pads on the rim, which seems strange.

I tried a Buzz a couple times and liked it, tried a Roc and it was comparable. I tried a Mako that a friend of mine bought and kinda liked that more than any. I'm going to try out one of those new Vectors as well. Any input about the Mako and Vector? Any advice about good FH drivers, keeping in mind that I have problems controlling the very overstable discs?
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:28 am

If you watch the first video, Mark talks about the importance of keeping the pad of your finger against the rim of the disc. That's where the disc is really thrown from.

Also don't take my saying "if you're struggling with over stable..." as saying you should only be throwing over stable. You need to be able to control less stable stuff as well especially if you are only throwing FH. In fact the less stable stuff shows your technique flaws a little more clearly. I don't throw a lot of Discraft so I don't know much there, but at times I have used Monarchs as FH drivers and know of people using Valks and Leopards very well as FH drivers. I throw Teebirds and Eagle-X's a lot myself as FH discs and have had good results with Wraiths and Destroyers. Pro plastics of Wraiths and Destroyers beat in rather quickly and won't be quite so stable but still have LOTS of glide...

I find with my Rhyno that I have to back off a lot to keep it from burning to the left on me. Its an overstable putter but its still a low speed putt and approach disc so I can't put a lot of torque on it. Also its not a very long disc as it doesn't have a lot of glide, so its not going to be a good substitute for a decent midrange driver. If you like Mako's go for it. I had decent success with a Star Coyote I just don't typically keep it in my bag these days.
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Dogma » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:12 pm

Solid advice from crosseyed.

Lack of a comfortable BH will limit you some on courses with lots of turns/obstacles. Are you able to throw overhand?
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Conan the Disctroyer » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:56 pm

Dogma wrote:Solid advice from crosseyed.

Lack of a comfortable BH will limit you some on courses with lots of turns/obstacles. Are you able to throw overhand?



No, not really, that's even more painful after a few and I have hardly any power with it. Best I can do is a pretty reliable FH anyhyzer.

As far as the grip, I do put both pads on the rim, it just looked like in Avery's mid range grip he does not, which I found odd. I can control the less stable discs pretty well, its the overstable that I have a hard time with. I also can't throw big looping hyzer shots at all; I can only throw relatively strait with a fade at the end, or a sharp anyhyzer.
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:29 pm

Conan the Disctroyer wrote: it just looked like in Avery's mid range grip he does not, which I found odd.



Yeah only the one finger was tucked against the rim. The other was stacked on top of it and helps support the flight plate, which is helpful with the larger diameter mids.

Typically with drivers if you have two fingers on the rim one is a pivot point and the other is a lock point which allows you to put more snap on the disc. Like I said earlier you can't hit your mids quite as hard so the dedicated lock point isn't as necessary and I find it counter productive anyway. The flight plate support is much more valuable with mids so you can control the angle of the disc at release and control your hyzers and anhyzers much better...
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Monocacy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:36 pm

Conan the Disctroyer wrote:My throwing style is to basically cock my wrist back, take a few small steps forward (mostly for rythm, not an Xstep), plant my front foot, pivot my rear foot, try to drive through with my hips and snap my wrist hard. I use a split power FH grip. Works good for driving, but trying to do that for midrange is just unpredictable. I either put too much on it and overshoot, or sissy throw it and flutters off.

To FH midranges, and even putters, try throwing them with just a flick of the wrist, and not much body or arm movement. I am hesitant to give FH advice, but I recently discovered that a one-finger forehand gives a much cleaner release for approach-type shots.

Conan the Disctroyer wrote:Any advice? Should I force myself to BH midrange? If not, what are some good FH midrange.

Backhand is nice to have, but not worth ruining your shoulder. Could you could chat with a sports doc or physical therapist about what motions might be safe for your shoulder? Maybe a lower pull line or Swedish-style throw would be easier on your shoulder, but it would be nice to get some knowledgeable medical advice first.

Conan the Disctroyer wrote:Also, what are some good FH drivers I should be trying? I've heard the Flick is great, but I tried it and it was too overstable for me. Thanks in advance.

Z Buzzz (especially Glo-Z) is pretty stable, and seems to release fairly cleanly FH. Pain is a bit taller, but also seems pretty forehand-friendly. You might also try something like a Banshee for overstable - it does not need a huge amount of power to make it go.
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby dejavu22 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:25 pm

I am Forehand dominate myself and i gotta tell you the buzz is the best and now only mid-range i carry.
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Mark Ellis » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:54 am

Controlling a midrange disc with a forehand is difficult. It is almost an art form, requiring a lot of practice.

Dial back on power and just try to make the disc fly dead nuts straight. It sounds simple but it is not. The key is to release the disc flat-perfectly flat-with a release which doesn't have a lot of flutter. So smooth, easy and flat. Even though you are throwing easy you still need a strong enough grip so the disc comes out cleanly. If the disc comes out of your hand like a wounded duck then you are not releasing cleanly, sometimes due to not squeezing tightly enough.

With a plate in your shoulder (must be fun going through metal detectors) you may not be able to practice enough to get good at backhand shots. No worry, just learn the forehand.

The fastest way to learn is to play catch with a buddy, starting at 40 feet with putters and gradually moving back until you need to switch to midranges. Purposely work on straight lines as well as hyzers and anhyzers.

Relatively stable or understable mids will work best for straight lines. So Buzzz's, Meteors or Stratus's (I have heard a rumor that companies other than Discraft make midranges too but I don't know much about them :wink: ) should work well. For practicing, it is nice to have a stack of Mids. The cheapest way is to buy used discs from players who have a bunch of discs in their trunks they don't use or find a Play It Again Sports or other retail shop that sells used discs.
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am

See, I told you Mark would probably pop in :-P He can't resist FH/sidearm threads! Great advice everyone, I'm starting to see some places I can tweak my own midrange FH game (and I don't mean by adding a Buzzz to my bag :-P)
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Re: FH for midrange?/general help

Postby Conan the Disctroyer » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:54 am

Mark Ellis wrote:Controlling a midrange disc with a forehand is difficult. It is almost an art form, requiring a lot of practice.

Dial back on power and just try to make the disc fly dead nuts straight. It sounds simple but it is not. The key is to release the disc flat-perfectly flat-with a release which doesn't have a lot of flutter. So smooth, easy and flat. Even though you are throwing easy you still need a strong enough grip so the disc comes out cleanly. If the disc comes out of your hand like a wounded duck then you are not releasing cleanly, sometimes due to not squeezing tightly enough.

With a plate in your shoulder (must be fun going through metal detectors) you may not be able to practice enough to get good at backhand shots. No worry, just learn the forehand.

The fastest way to learn is to play catch with a buddy, starting at 40 feet with putters and gradually moving back until you need to switch to midranges. Purposely work on straight lines as well as hyzers and anhyzers.

Relatively stable or understable mids will work best for straight lines. So Buzzz's, Meteors or Stratus's (I have heard a rumor that companies other than Discraft make midranges too but I don't know much about them :wink: ) should work well. For practicing, it is nice to have a stack of Mids. The cheapest way is to buy used discs from players who have a bunch of discs in their trunks they don't use or find a Play It Again Sports or other retail shop that sells used discs.


Thanks a lot for the input Mr. Ellis (and everyone else, too). Your videos pretty much taught me what I do know about FH shots. You may also be interested to know that they also convinced me to try Discraft, and now everything new I buy is Z Plastic.

So for the mid shots, should I just be pretty much using purely wrist action with a tight grip? That's more or less what I try to do right now, but I find that it becomes a lot harder to aim that way. Something about taking most of the arm action out makes the release different...not less clean, just harder to aim for me.

You're right that I can't practice enough to throw a backhand, so it pretty much forces me to develop my FH shots. Unfortunately, one shot I have yet to be able to throw at all is a FH hyzer. I can throw an anyhyzer a lot easier, I can throw strait, but I can't throw those huge hyzer bombs like I see a lot of backhand players through, such as in that Eric McCabe video on the Discraft site. I will definitely try getting a bro and playing pass.

Speaking of the advice about used discs, what do you guys think of buying miss-stamped bulk discs? I've seen packages online that sell like 50 drivers or mids or random varieties that are cosmetically messed up for dirt cheap.
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