2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, California

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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby Peot » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:18 pm

I'm not saying it should necessarily be "an exclusive club." If disc golf gains any ground, it will be at some point I'm sure. All I'm saying is that people being able to register who have no chance at winning, much less cashing, over the guy who JUST WON is insane to me.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby Mixed Bag Madness » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:35 pm

Booter wrote:Whats with all the ma1 & ma2 players being allowed to play at pro worlds?? Pretty dumb too considering the defending champ has to wait because of local ams wanting to play.

How.... are we ever.....going to be a legitimate..... sport???????? Absolutely unreal. :shock: Emac has been out winning tournaments like he should instead of being on the interwebs. Let's just alienate his ass for being out playing golf instead of sitting on a computer. :lol: It makes our sport look even better to future sponsors. :roll: Not to mention the fact that the previous years winner should have a guaranteed spot the following year.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby JHern » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:13 pm

Peot wrote:I'm not saying it should necessarily be "an exclusive club." If disc golf gains any ground, it will be at some point I'm sure. All I'm saying is that people being able to register who have no chance at winning, much less cashing, over the guy who JUST WON is insane to me.


I still don't understand. If somebody is willing to move up to Pro so they can play in Worlds, what's wrong with that? Just because they were previously an Am, they should be shut out? And, as geoblime said, getting people to move up to Pro is only going to help expand the field so that this process becomes more straightforward in the future. Also, Tom Schot thinks that players need to "get away from the Am mentality" and go Pro as early as possible, so this is a good way to push some to do just that.

Regarding EMac and some other Pros, I've talked to them, and they are tight on cash/credit a lot of times, registering for a lot of tournaments, buying plane tickets, etc.. When you do a lot of touring, it puts a good deal of financial strain on you, unless you're very well-organized or money simply isn't an object. I know that some pros (e.g., Nate, Val, and Avery) seem to be very well-organized about the process, they plan well in advance to save headaches. And its still tough to plan, because their payouts don't often materialize until well after the events they cashed in.

Also, in the future, I personally think that the previous year's World champ in each division should not have to register at all. They should be given an automatic slot and the PDGA should cover their reg fees. Plain and simple. It is one of the prizes for winning the previous year. They can opt out if they want, to open up spots for others in case they can't make it.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby Peot » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:54 pm

JHern wrote:
Peot wrote:I'm not saying it should necessarily be "an exclusive club." If disc golf gains any ground, it will be at some point I'm sure. All I'm saying is that people being able to register who have no chance at winning, much less cashing, over the guy who JUST WON is insane to me.


I still don't understand. If somebody is willing to move up to Pro so they can play in Worlds, what's wrong with that? Just because they were previously an Am, they should be shut out? And, as geoblime said, getting people to move up to Pro is only going to help expand the field so that this process becomes more straightforward in the future. Also, Tom Schot thinks that players need to "get away from the Am mentality" and go Pro as early as possible, so this is a good way to push some to do just that.

Regarding EMac and some other Pros, I've talked to them, and they are tight on cash/credit a lot of times, registering for a lot of tournaments, buying plane tickets, etc.. When you do a lot of touring, it puts a good deal of financial strain on you, unless you're very well-organized or money simply isn't an object. I know that some pros (e.g., Nate, Val, and Avery) seem to be very well-organized about the process, they plan well in advance to save headaches. And its still tough to plan, because their payouts don't often materialize until well after the events they cashed in.

Also, in the future, I personally think that the previous year's World champ in each division should not have to register at all. They should be given an automatic slot and the PDGA should cover their reg fees. Plain and simple. It is one of the prizes for winning the previous year. They can opt out if they want, to open up spots for others in case they can't make it.


I don't even think it's necessarily an issue of just Eric McCabe, who stands out for obvious reasons. I would say anybody who is rated 1020 or something being shut out of worlds over a 920 player just because of registration is kind of ridiculous. At an A-tier? I agree, registration should just be first-come first-serve. But at any of the NT or Majors precedence should be given to the big dogs for sure.

As for "people getting away from the Am mentality," I think if anything it should be the other way around. People around here move up way too soon. Now I'm still pretty new to the game, but the people who play open around here are 940-960 and never really play in the bigger events with touring pros because they don't stand a chance.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby ferretdance03 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:17 pm

If the big dogs get precedence to register, how long should you wait for them to get their act together? How long do the lowly Ams hang in the balance waiting to see if they get to play? I like the idea of the previous year's winner having a reserved spot, but everyone else should have to register in a timely manner or risk being shut out.

How.... are we ever.....going to be a legitimate..... sport???????? Absolutely unreal. Emac has been out winning tournaments like he should instead of being on the interwebs. Let's just alienate his ass for being out playing golf instead of sitting on a computer. It makes our sport look even better to future sponsors.
How legitimate of competitors are the top pros that got shut out if they can't find time to register for the World Championships? How long does it take to register, 3 mins? If I was anyone of importance at Discraft I'd be a little disappointed in EMac that he didn't get registered in time. Maybe they should have done it for him...
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby Peot » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:32 pm

ferretdance03 wrote:If the big dogs get precedence to register, how long should you wait for them to get their act together? How long do the lowly Ams hang in the balance waiting to see if they get to play? I like the idea of the previous year's winner having a reserved spot, but everyone else should have to register in a timely manner or risk being shut out.

How.... are we ever.....going to be a legitimate..... sport???????? Absolutely unreal. Emac has been out winning tournaments like he should instead of being on the interwebs. Let's just alienate his ass for being out playing golf instead of sitting on a computer. It makes our sport look even better to future sponsors.
How legitimate of competitors are the top pros that got shut out if they can't find time to register for the World Championships? How long does it take to register, 3 mins? If I was anyone of importance at Discraft I'd be a little disappointed in EMac that he didn't get registered in time. Maybe they should have done it for him...


I think the latter portion of the post indicates some of the disparity between a lot of sports and disc golf. If JHern's previous post is accurate, which I'm sure it is, registration can be difficult to balance, and similarly easy to forget. My overarching point though, is this: the major events are major events for a reason. It seems like there are two (big) reasons people play in these tournaments: the chance to win, and the chance to enjoy the experience of playing in the PDGA Worlds/USDGC/etc. But the former should absolutely take precedence over the latter in these cases. Guys who are rated highly have busted their asses to become great at this game not just because they love it, but because they have a fierce desire to compete and to win. This is where the disconnect is between my point of view and a couple of the other posters here; I empathize much more with the fierce competitor than the wide-eyed am who is in it for the experience.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby JHern » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:08 pm

Peot wrote:...My overarching point though...


Yeah, we heard your point. What you haven't explained is how you'd run Worlds differently. Please, do be specific in your response.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby ferretdance03 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:58 pm

I'm sorry, if a fierce competitor can't take 3 minutes out of their time to register for the World Championships, they don't deserve to have a spot reserved for them.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby Peot » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:58 pm

It doesn't seem all that difficult to me to reserve spots for every golfer above X rating and then do it by first come first serve with a waitlist. I won't pretend to know how to run tournaments, but doesn't the Vibram Open do something tertiarily similar to this?
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby ferretdance03 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:27 am

Read this post again- they had two months to register. How long should they have? Like I said, if they can't take the time out of their fiercely busy competition schedule to register, they didn't really want to be there.

JHern wrote:
Booter wrote:Whats with all the ma1 & ma2 players being allowed to play at pro worlds?? Pretty dumb too considering the defending champ has to wait because of local ams wanting to play.


That's a bunch of BS. The touring pros (including Emac) who got invites had a gold-plated invitation slot that was open for an entire 2 months. They knew way in advance of that that they would have it available, and when it would be available. So they sit on their asses. And they sit on their asses. We told them over and over and over again to get registered before it was opened to Ams. You have no idea the kind of shaking of trees that was done to get their attention. Snail mail. E-mail. Phone calls. Posting on FB walls. Bugging friends to bug them. You name it. There is no excuse for ignorance on this one.

Then some of them wait until AFTER registration opens up for Ams to try and jump in and totally clog up everything. Then complain that Ams are allowed in, and try to bully them back out so they can get in from way down the wait list. If they'd just have registered when they had their red carpet period open just for them, then there would be no Ams at all playing in 2011 Pro Worlds. And its very telling that they only started to complain about the Am registration period after registration opened for everybody and they were caught with their pants down. Some of these guys think they deserve more royal treatment than Kenny Climo, or Nate Doss, or Nikko Locastro, or Avery Jenkins, etc., etc., who all registered when it was time for them to register.

Seriously guys, if you don't know how bad some of these MPOs procrastinate with registration, hang around a while longer. Maybe TD a big tournament, they'll have you pulling your hair out and gouging out your eyes, and swearing that next time you're going to do advance registration only, and let PDGA handle it all online.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby geoblime » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:49 am

Peot wrote:It doesn't seem all that difficult to me to reserve spots for every golfer above X rating and then do it by first come first serve with a waitlist. I won't pretend to know how to run tournaments, but doesn't the Vibram Open do something tertiarily similar to this?

Mixed Bag Madness wrote:
Booter wrote:Whats with all the ma1 & ma2 players being allowed to play at pro worlds?? Pretty dumb too considering the defending champ has to wait because of local ams wanting to play.

How.... are we ever.....going to be a legitimate..... sport???????? Absolutely unreal. :shock: Emac has been out winning tournaments like he should instead of being on the interwebs. Let's just alienate his ass for being out playing golf instead of sitting on a computer. :lol: It makes our sport look even better to future sponsors. :roll: Not to mention the fact that the previous years winner should have a guaranteed spot the following year.

And we'll have the silver spoons waiting for all those Pros when they show up at the players meeting since they'll be guaranteed a spot. :roll: To me, it's not a matter of finding time or forgetting to reg., it's a matter of either just plain being lazy or a feeling of entitlement. They all got gold plated invites well before every one else, including Emac.
This is one of the top three tourneys for the YEAR and I for one think that if the defending champ can't make the time out of his "busy" schedule playing
"disc golf" for a living, then why should he be allowed to play. Ya know, I work 50hrs+ a week, have a family with kids, commute 45+ min. to work, bowl in a league, and I found the time to reg. I'm sure on one of those stressful nights after a "hard" weekend of golf Emac and the other pros traveling/competing with him could have found the time to register for the BIGGEST tourney of the year. Now I'm not attacking Emac as a person, I'm sure he's a great guy, but this bulls@#t mentality has been going on for almost as long as I've been playing. I can't tell you how many times I've either read about Pros scrambling to get into a sold out tourney or showing up the day of and getting the TD to have a ghost group or make groups of 5. If you want to play, make an effort--no reserved spots for anybody. It's open to all that want to play.
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby JHern » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:12 pm

Peot wrote:It doesn't seem all that difficult to me to reserve spots for every golfer above X rating and then do it by first come first serve with a waitlist. I won't pretend to know how to run tournaments, but doesn't the Vibram Open do something tertiarily similar to this?


Gee, that sounds exactly like what we did!
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby JHern » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:10 am

You guys won't believe what the volunteer package looks like now. I'm not allowed to say, although you might figure it out from looking at recent updates to our sponsors list. Some people have heard, and are asking if they can buy in as a volunteer, but not actually show up to volunteer. We will not be releasing the schwag to anyone who doesn't truly intend to volunteer. The value of the volunteer package is now almost $300, and climbing all the time.

Every manufacturer wants to get their product into the volunteer pack, these are the people they want to market their products to, which makes perfect sense. Just as the total payout for 2011 Worlds (well over $100K) is breaking records, it will also be the juiciest volunteer package in the history of disc golf.
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Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby JHern » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:44 am

We've mapped and measured the extra 9 holes to be included for Pro Worlds at Pinto Lake. You can check out the map here...

http://www.2011proworlds.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Pinto_Lake1.gif

Also, we're releasing the map for Ryan Ranch in the 2011 Pro Worlds layout:

http://www.2011proworlds.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Ryan_Ranch1.gif
Japan bag...
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Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
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Re: 2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, Califor

Postby Apothecary » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:26 am

neither of those pics appear to be working.
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