More Critique Please

[archimedesjs]

I have tried to incorporate some of the past advise that was given to me from these forums. I've slowed down my run up, and have been trying to use more of my lower body in the throw, but I'm missing something. Somebody had mentioned I might be strong arming my throws, but I don't know if that's the case or not. My arm is never sore after 3-4 rounds on an 18 hole course where I'm throwing as far as I can on at least 9 of them. I can feel the hit, I get a nice audible snap the majority of the time ,but I'm obviously doing something wrong. Please help:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so97zXg960M

[MDP]

I have tried to incorporate some of the past advise that was given to me from these forums. I've slowed down my run up, and have been trying to use more of my lower body in the throw, but I'm missing something. Somebody had mentioned I might be strong arming my throws, but I don't know if that's the case or not. My arm is never sore after 3-4 rounds on an 18 hole course where I'm throwing as far as I can on at least 9 of them. I can feel the hit, I get a nice audible snap the majority of the time ,but I'm obviously doing something wrong. Please help:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so97zXg960M

It doesn't look like you're getting your weight shifted through the throw. As you follow throw you almost fall away from the direction you're throwing (especially the second two). You're getting good rotation on the follow through but you need to get you're weight behind it. So it's not that you're throwing with too much arm, just not enough lower body.

Your left leg should follow through forward not just around. Watch Avery's first throw:

[JR]

The arm shouldn't be sore after playing. You could be more explosive with the arm acceleration. Dragging the left leg on the ground does not help. Follow through step goes too far. It is enough for a flat shot to face the left side toward the target. You could push harder with the left leg. See what happens when you put the thumb closer to the center of the disc in half inch increments. Your thumb is on the outside of the disc. Too much probably. If you punched the elbow forward faster you'd get the elbow bend angles tighter to get a better snap.

[MDP]

Follow through step goes too far. It is enough for a flat shot to face the left side toward the target. You could push harder with the left leg.

I just wanted to pick up on part of what JR said because I didn't really explain how you might get your weight forward more. He's right that pushing harder with your left leg is going to help. In the throws from the video you kind of sling it around in a circle with your follow through.

There are a couple of ways to do this, but you really want to focus on getting that weight from your left leg through (instead of around) your shot onto your plat foot (and then again onto your left foot on the follow throw). The video I posted of Avery should help you visualize it.

[JR]

Follow through step goes too far. It is enough for a flat shot to face the left side toward the target. You could push harder with the left leg.

I just wanted to pick up on part of what JR said because I didn't really explain how you might get your weight forward more. He's right that pushing harder with your left leg is going to help. In the throws from the video you kind of sling it around in a circle with your follow through.

There are a couple of ways to do this, but you really want to focus on getting that weight from your left leg through (instead of around) your shot onto your plat foot (and then again onto your left foot on the follow throw). The video I posted of Avery should help you visualize it.

Skateboard kick is a term that has been used to describe the motion of the kick. At low speeds one could also do what Chubby checker does in the video for the song Do the Twist with the knees.

It's funny did MDP post the video or was it Avery, mafa or me?

[archimedesjs]

The arm shouldn't be sore after playing. .

I know, I said my arm is NOT sore, which led me to believe that I wasn't strong arming my throws.

Follow through step goes too far. It is enough for a flat shot to face the left side toward the target. You could push harder with the left leg.

I'm not following what you mean by follow through step goes too far. I also don't understand what you mean by facing the left side toward the target. The other thing, is when you say to push harder with my left leg, do I do this at the hit, or leading up to it? I feel awkward and off balance if I try to push off of my left leg hard leading up to the hit. If i push off right AT the hit, I feel more centered. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

See what happens when you put the thumb closer to the center of the disc in half inch increments. Your thumb is on the outside of the disc. Too much probably. If you punched the elbow forward faster you'd get the elbow bend angles tighter to get a better snap

This helped me immensely. I shifted my thumb over to where it is during my midrange shots, for which I use a modified fan grip, and I was getting more rotation on the disc. Also, when I focused on punching my elbow, I was seeing improvement. I can hit 400' on a line drive with a beast and a nuke now, which I'm feeling pretty good about at the moment, but if my form is right I should be able to do that with a leopard and other slow discs, which means I'm still doing something wrong. A more in depth explanation of the weight distribution points would really be appreciated, or even if there is a reference on the forum about it.

I watched the avery video, but I still don't grasp the concept.

[MDP]

I watched the avery video, but I still don't grasp the concept.

Watch where his left leg goes after the hit. Then watch the your video and see where your left leg goes.

Avery steps through so his left leg comes down in front of him (towards the target); you spin it around so your left leg actually comes down to your right (I think this is what JR was referring to as "your step goes too far").

The above is a result of the weight shift, not the weight shift itself. You mentioned that you feel more centered if you push at the hit. The issue is that because your following through is not going forward, your not getting your body's momentum behind the throw. It turns into wasted energy that just spins you around.

Ideally, you push through the hit, starting at the "pull" which begins when the disc reaches your right pec. So, you can try pushing at the hit, but make sure that your doing so in a way that gets all your momentum going forward (towards the target) and not just spinning around on your plant leg. You do want that rotation, but you also want your momentum primarily going forward.

[archimedesjs]

Thank you very much for the clarification. I never thought to think of the leg rotation as wasted energy, but comparing the two videos it's easy to see. My left leg is like dead weight at the hit, and is just expending energy, where Avery's is actively participating in generating power up to the hit. Instead of my leg whipping around at the end like that, it should be the main force behind the rotation of my body through the hit. It's going to take a little bit to get comfortable incorporating that into my throw, but I'm very grateful for you breaking it down for me. I'll be sure to post another video after I have incorporated it, and worked out the kinks. Thank you again.

[JR]

That is good distance out of a line drive congratulations. The timing of the left leg push and the duration of the left leg push may vary a bit with changing run up speeds. Kinetic chain needs to be fast and the left leg kick begins the chain AKA the actual power zone of the throw. For me so far the best results have come when i push the hardest right after the plant of the right leg.

MDP wrote of what i meant. This tip is from the distance record holder Christian Sandström and the Youtube promo of his technique video. It is in Swedish. I don't know if the video has been released yet.

[fanter]

I don't really see a definitive "push" with Avery's left leg. It doesn't sling around his body, but even in slo-mo, it doesn't like to me like he's exerting anything with the leg. He more lifts it up out of the way instead of swinging it around like the OP.

That's not to say that I doubt the power of the skateboard kick, but I don't see it in the video, and it's not something I've understood well yet in my quest for better form.

[MDP]

I don't really see a definitive "push" with Avery's left leg. It doesn't sling around his body, but even in slo-mo, it doesn't like to me like he's exerting anything with the leg. He more lifts it up out of the way instead of swinging it around like the OP.

That's not to say that I doubt the power of the skateboard kick, but I don't see it in the video, and it's not something I've understood well yet in my quest for better form.

The 'skateboard kick' is one way of doing it. Avery doesn't have a defined kick like Beto does. The look of the kick isn't nearly as important as the mechanisms involved. If you watch his torso move from over his back leg to his front that is evidence of the weight shift. That's what matters: shifting your weight online with your target.