FTT's (slower) bag project

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FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:59 am

I think I suffer from having discs that are too fast, so I'm hoping to slow down my current bag and would love some input. Here's some info on my game:

-Max D is 350' on occasion, when accuracy isn't needed
-Golf D is near 300', but more comfortably near 275'
-Almost all of my drivers finish with more fade than I want because I tend to throw too high
-My midrange game is still developing - I can get most of my mids near 250' on the course and a bit further in an open field
-I want to start driving more with my putters - I picked up 3 Medium 175 Wizards recently to work on this

Here's some criteria

-No OOP or rare discs
-All of my discs need to fit into my fade crunch bag
-I would like to keep my mold count low, but dont necessarily want to depend on beat-in discs (except maybe DX)
-I want to shy away from deep-rimmed and beaded mids (roc, comet, etc.) and want to stick to shallow-grip mids (buzzz, fuse, etc.)
-I want to stay as slow as possible without sacrificing too much distance (maybe a speed 7 for a majority of my drivers? and speed 9 for a distance driver?)

Molds I am most familiar with, but not married to:

-PD (C/S/P)
-Eagle-X (Star/DX)
-Hornet
-Z Buzzz (SS and regular)
-Opto Fuse
-Wizard / Magic

Discs I have in my bag:
Star Beast, CFR C PD, C PD, S PD, P PD, Star Roadrunner, Star Eagle-X, DX Eagle-X, Hornet, Z Buzzz (SS and regular), Opto Fuse, Magic, Wizard
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby MDP » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:03 am

Fightingthetide wrote:-I want to stay as slow as possible without sacrificing too much distance (maybe a speed 7 for a majority of my drivers? and speed 9 for a distance driver?)

This doesn't seem like a bad idea, especially in your power level. You could try something like this:
- Take everything faster than an Eagle out of your bag
- Take your most overstable driver faster than an Eagle (I'm guessing CFR C-PD) and put that back (meathook/windfighter)
- Take your favorite turnover driver (I'm guessing Beast, Sidewinder or P-PD if it's beat) and put that back; unless your DX EX already fills that slot.
- If the courses you play have holes where you can really go for max D without worrying too much about placement, you could put something faster in for max D, otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:46 am

it seems that your biggest concern with your bag is your drivers, so i will begin there. i would recommend a tl, it has great glide and very little low speed overstability. another disc i would recommend is a valkyrie or a viking for your max distance driver. maybe both, as the viking is a more stable compliment to the valk. teebirds, gazelles, stalkers, and eagles are also great choices for slower and more controllable drivers
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:47 am

Yeah, the issue really lies within my driver slots. I like the idea of sticking to a 7 speed driver as my workhorse and getting a 9 speed for distance (when necessary). Is it going to be more beneficial to switch to TB's and TL's over the Eagle molds because of increased glide? I think this is where I get stuck in my mind when thinking about which disc to make my workhorse.

I'm liking this so far:

170 Viking / 165 Star Valk - Distance (headwind/tailwind)
175 CFR C PD - Very Overstable
175 Champ ??? - Overstable
170 Star and DX ??? - Stable Control
165-170 ??? - Understable
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby MDP » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:06 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:Yeah, the issue really lies within my driver slots. I like the idea of sticking to a 7 speed driver as my workhorse and getting a 9 speed for distance (when necessary). Is it going to be more beneficial to switch to TB's and TL's over the Eagle molds because of increased glide? I think this is where I get stuck in my mind when thinking about which disc to make my workhorse.

As a TeeBird thrower, I'm going to say no, especially if you're already familiar and like the Eagle-X just stick with it. Both are great discs, and you should be able to cover all of the TB/TL shots with EX's (varying weights, plastics, conditions).


Fightingthetide wrote:I'm liking this so far:

170 Viking / 165 Star Valk - Distance (headwind/tailwind)
175 CFR C PD - Very Overstable
175 Champ ??? - Overstable
170 Star and DX ??? - Stable Control
165-170 ??? - Understable


If you prefer your distance disc to be straighter (less horizontal movement) Viking would work, if you are more comfortable throwing bigger 'S' shapes for distance, Valk (your Beast might also work). Use EX's to fill the Overstable and stable/control slots. If your Beast is too understable for the max D slot, it may work for the turnover one. Otherwise, a beat DX EX would also fill that.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby keltik » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:40 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:170 Viking / 165 Star Valk - Distance (headwind/tailwind)
175 CFR C PD - Very Overstable
175 Champ Eagle-X - Overstable
170 Star and DXEagle-X - Stable Control
165-170 Leopard - Understable


I put my suggestions in Pink. If the EX works for you don't change it out. It is a more useful disc than the TB. The Leopard is a really good driver that gets overlooked sometimes (not here though). If you want a solid Discraft option that could do all the things the Eagle-X and Leopard do in one mold, try the XL. the Z's are fairly stable. The FLX's can be downright overstable. the X's and Pro-D's are understable. and the ESP's are stable. But you are on the right track with slowing down your bag.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:23 pm

@MDP - I'll stick with Eagle-X's. Thanks for the suggestion.

@keltik - would a beat DX EX fly much different than a Star Leopard? If so, it would keep me from having to rotate in new DX EX's.

I want a distance driver with some horizontal movement, so I might go with a lighter Star Valk for distance. I have no experience with Valks...would this work for me as a distance driver, at my power level?

Here's the slow bag (in theory) so far:

165 Star Valk - distance
175 CFR C PD - meathook
175 Champ EX - overstable
170 Star EX - stable control
165-170 Star Leopard OR 165-170 DX EX (rotation) - understable

PS - I love my mids :D The Fuse / Buzzz combo is money...so are wizards
Last edited by Fightingthetide on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:40 pm

i dont really advise throwing a valk, even at a heavy weight, into a headwind. i would recommend getting a165 star valk, a 170 champ valk, and a 170 champ viking. these three discs will meet all your distance driving needs. the viking will hold a much better line into a headwind, and will be more useful for shaping hyzers while having a very similair grip to a valk
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby MDP » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:42 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:
I want a distance driver with some horizontal movement, so I might go with a lighter Star Valk for tailwind and no-wind distance, and a 175 Champ Valk for headwind distance. I have no experience with these discs...would this work for me as a distance driver setup, at my power level?


Well, you already have PDs, how well would your S or P PD work for the max D slot?

I throw both of those, and I have a feeling as my P PD breaks in it will end up being fairly long. Valk should be a little easier to throw (power wise) than your PDs.

You also probably only need one for max D. Headwind driving can be handled by the Champ EX. If you really want to carry another driver just for headwind distance you can, but a lot of the time it's tough to get distance in headwinds regardless of what disc you're throwing.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:25 pm

Hyzerline49 wrote:i dont really advise throwing a valk, even at a heavy weight, into a headwind. i would recommend getting a165 star valk, a 170 champ valk, and a 170 champ viking. these three discs will meet all your distance driving needs. the viking will hold a much better line into a headwind, and will be more useful for shaping hyzers while having a very similair grip to a valk


Great advice, but why all three? It almost seems like overlap, but I would love to know what you think.


MDP wrote:Well, you already have PDs, how well would your S or P PD work for the max D slot?

I throw both of those, and I have a feeling as my P PD breaks in it will end up being fairly long. Valk should be a little easier to throw (power wise) than your PDs.


Well, I have a seasoned 175 and a beat-in 175 P PD. On a flat throw (RHBH), the seasoned P PD will fly slightly L-R with strong fade. The beat P PD will flip past flat and hold a long right turn from a slight hyzer.

I would like to think a 165-170 Star Valk would hold a nice anhyzer line to the ground, or slightly L-R from flat - thus replacing my P PD's with a premium plastic mold that is easy to replace. In the end, I want to move away from reliance upon beat-in plastic...and step below a 10 speed driver.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Hyzerline49 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:27 pm

i was thinking that the star valk would beat in, and be used for hyzerflips and turnovers. the champ valk would stay more stable, and be used for more stable distance, including slight hyzers and flex shots. and the viking could handle all the more stable distance shots, including headwind duties.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:41 pm

Oh, that makes complete sense. Thanks for elaborating.

I'm still open to keep talking about my bag project if anyone has more thoughts, but with all this in mind, here is what I'm thinking:

175 CFR C PD
170 Champ Viking
170 Champ Valkyrie
165 Star Valkyrie
175 Champ EX
170 Star EX
165 Star Leopard

180 Z Hornet
178 Z Buzzz
178 Z Buzzz SS
170 Opto Fuse

175 M Wizard
175 SSS Wizard
170 SS Magic

2 things:
1) is there overlap with the drivers?
2) is there anything missing?
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby MDP » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:47 pm

Hyzerline49 wrote:i was thinking that the star valk would beat in, and be used for hyzerflips and turnovers. the champ valk would stay more stable, and be used for more stable distance, including slight hyzers and flex shots. and the viking could handle all the more stable distance shots, including headwind duties.

I think, maybe I'm misunderstanding, that he wants to limit the number of drivers he has over speed 7 or so.

From that standpoint, just adding one max D driver, and using his EXs for things like headwinds, would fit the bill.

It's been a while since I've thrown a Valk, but I remember they do have a substantial fade. It really wants to fly as an 'S' shape line. Should have more turn than your slightly beat P-PD with similar fade (maybe even a bit more).
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:18 pm

MDP wrote:
Hyzerline49 wrote:i was thinking that the star valk would beat in, and be used for hyzerflips and turnovers. the champ valk would stay more stable, and be used for more stable distance, including slight hyzers and flex shots. and the viking could handle all the more stable distance shots, including headwind duties.

I think, maybe I'm misunderstanding, that he wants to limit the number of drivers he has over speed 7 or so.

From that standpoint, just adding one max D driver, and using his EXs for things like headwinds, would fit the bill.

It's been a while since I've thrown a Valk, but I remember they do have a substantial fade. It really wants to fly as an 'S' shape line. Should have more turn than your slightly beat P-PD with similar fade (maybe even a bit more).


Yes, that's true. I do want to limit what I throw above speed 7 so I can work on improving form, snap, etc. and at the same time keep from hyzering off the fairway.

Were you saying a Valk would have more fade than my seasoned P PD? Or more high speed turn?

I'm going to start throwing my mids off the tee for narrow fairways and holes under 350', especiall those near or under 300', and save my drivers for the more open holes that need a further reach.

My goal is to stick to the slowest driver or mid possible to get par on each hole that I throw. Speed 9 and faster is only hurting my game.

So maybe I'll just grab a 165 Star Valk instead of 2 Valks and a Viking, and maybe even a 165 Star EX...
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby MDP » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:59 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:Yes, that's true. I do want to limit what I throw above speed 7 so I can work on improving form, snap, etc. and at the same time keep from hyzering off the fairway.

Were you saying a Valk would have more fade than my seasoned P PD? Or more high speed turn?

Valk is less HSS (more turn) and more LSS (more fade) than a P PD.

From Joe's
Valk:
HSS: -2
LSS: 3

PD:
HSS: -1
LSS: 2.5
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