Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

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Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Dogma » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:15 pm

PDGA wrote: 802.01 Discs Used in Play
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F

Apothecary wrote:this notion really interests me. it seems to me that the clutch point is whether or not the flash is considered (by the manufacturer) a mistake or not. if it is, its ok to remove it and make the disc fly "as intended".

if its NOT a mistake (and i havent seen anything to suggest that it was a mistake/defect) then its illegal to willfully remove it.

thats just my understanding. if there are people reading this who are more familiar with the rules and how they are enforced, i would love to hear your perspective.



As for the manufacturer's view, just ask them whether they would prefer a manufacturing process that leaves non-design production remnants on their product, or one that does not. I file flashing under "imperfection".

I don't think tire manufacturers would leave those tits all over the sides of their tires if there were an affordable alternative either.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Apothecary » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:20 pm

yeah...but outside of the manufacturer explicitly stating that the flashing is a mistake, it seems to me you dont really have an argument for the flash being anything besides intended.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Wyno » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:45 pm

Hey asshole, check page 179/180 of the lat 64 thread. Then shut the fuck up
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Dogma » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:57 pm

Ummm...I followed the goose chase, but found nothing useful. Link?
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Wyno » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:25 pm

Spike wrote:Svante and Thomas, do you have any plans on getting a de-flashing machine in a near future?

Latitude 64 wrote:Yes


Edit: and this:

Mark Ellis wrote:For anyone with strong fingers a golf towel will take care of flashing as well as most nicks and gouges.
Flashing issues, btw, are rare for Discraft discs. They have flash trimming machines.
Last edited by Wyno on Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Apothecary » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:28 pm

does that mean the flash was a mistake? i didnt read it that way. just one more thing that can be improved upon.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Redisculous » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:35 pm

My grandfather owned a small injection-molding factory until he retired a few years back. I can tell you with absolute certainty that flashing is a defect. If you took a minute to google it, you would find all sorts of articles about reducing flash during the process.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby MDP » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:36 pm

Apothecary wrote:does that mean the flash was a mistake? i didnt read it that way. just one more thing that can be improved upon.


So they're intentionally putting flashing on it...and then intentionally removing it?
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Leopard » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:41 pm

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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Apothecary » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:09 pm

MDP wrote:
Apothecary wrote:does that mean the flash was a mistake? i didnt read it that way. just one more thing that can be improved upon.


So they're intentionally putting flashing on it...and then intentionally removing it?


do you have some evidence to suggest the contrary? all ive seen is them saying theyre not going to have flash...IN THE FUTURE. nothing indicative of the discs that have been made with flash being a mistake.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Leopard » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:18 pm

this is a retarded argument you're trying to make.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby inthedrift » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:21 pm

gotta agree
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby JHern » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:24 pm

...smooth molding imperfections...


...means removing the flashing.

Enough said.
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby MDP » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:26 pm

Apothecary wrote:
MDP wrote:
Apothecary wrote:does that mean the flash was a mistake? i didnt read it that way. just one more thing that can be improved upon.


So they're intentionally putting flashing on it...and then intentionally removing it?


do you have some evidence to suggest the contrary? all ive seen is them saying theyre not going to have flash...IN THE FUTURE. nothing indicative of the discs that have been made with flash being a mistake.

It seems unreasonable to do so.

Discraft (via Mark Ellis) seems to be taking it off now. Obviously it's going to cost some amount of money to take the flashing off so if companies are intentionally putting it on, only to remove it, is not only more time consuming, it makes less sense from a business perspective.

Lat 64 didn't say, in the future with different discs we're going to use a deflashing machine. If it's there intent to use a deflashing machine on the current discs they produce, flashing then looks like an unintended result of the production process. Now, they didn't explicitly say that, but that's what the context would lead me to believe.

What evidence do you have that it's intended? In most cases the burden of proof is on the positive claim; in this case "flashing is intended by the manufacturer."
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Re: Flashing Removal - Legal or Not?

Postby Apothecary » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:39 pm

MDP wrote:
Apothecary wrote:
MDP wrote:
Apothecary wrote:does that mean the flash was a mistake? i didnt read it that way. just one more thing that can be improved upon.


So they're intentionally putting flashing on it...and then intentionally removing it?


do you have some evidence to suggest the contrary? all ive seen is them saying theyre not going to have flash...IN THE FUTURE. nothing indicative of the discs that have been made with flash being a mistake.

It seems unreasonable to do so.

Discraft (via Mark Ellis) seems to be taking it off now. Obviously it's going to cost some amount of money to take the flashing off so if companies are intentionally putting it on, only to remove it, is not only more time consuming, it makes less sense from a business perspective.

Lat 64 didn't say, in the future with different discs we're going to use a deflashing machine. If it's there intent to use a deflashing machine on the current discs they produce, flashing then looks like an unintended result of the production process. Now, they didn't explicitly say that, but that's what the context would lead me to believe.

What evidence do you have that it's intended? In most cases the burden of proof is on the positive claim; in this case "flashing is intended by the manufacturer."


the proof is that its there. if it wasnt intended to be there, it would be gone before it makes it to the consumers hands. if the manufacturer wanted it gone, they would have employed people to remove it (unless explicitly stating so).
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