Made shot or no?

Rules Discussion and General PDGA discussion.

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Made shot or no?

Postby 7ontheline » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:22 pm

The disc powers all the way through the side of the basket and comes to rest completly inside the basket but never went over the rim of the basket. Is it good?
Magic / Judge / PA2 - Tursas / QMS / Buzzz / Mace - QJ / E / F - Renegade / O / D1

JHern wrote:If your putter isn't your favorite disc, get a new putter.
7ontheline
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:23 pm
Location: Midtown Memphis, TN
Favorite Disc: Judge

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby mobster » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:33 pm

If you can prove it went in like that, it doesn't count.
mobster
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:26 am
Location: Dover, OH
Favorite Disc: Nuke SS

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Espi » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:34 am

Just curious but since they changed the ruling to disallow a shot that passes through the basket from counting, what if your disc passed outward through the basket from the inside would it then count. Haven't ever seen it happen, but i had never seen one sneak through from the outside either until I used a friends supper puppy and I shot 3 through in 15 minuets. I put with a stiff putter usually.
Espi
Noob
User avatar
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 4:45 pm
Favorite Disc: PD

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby ferretdance03 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:33 am

ferretdance03
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1877
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:55 am
Location: PA*sevenoneseven
Favorite Disc: glow wizard

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Apothecary » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 am

illegal (if someone in the group saw it wedge in).
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Apothecary
Freaky Jesus
User avatar
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:35 am
Favorite Disc: Ion/Comet

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Craig » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:00 pm

I played in a tournament (match play), and a weird thing happened. My opponent's putt hit the the number plate on top of the basket, then slid back so it was hanging off the prongs the the chains are attached to. It sat there, swinging back and forth - and the chains were still swinging back and forth, when he ran up and grabbed it.

I thought this was a little suspect, even though he was beating me badly enough to make it irrelevant, for 3 reasons:

1. I don't think the disc had come to rest, as it was still swinging back and forth, as were the chains. Not sure if this is relevant, but I think there was a good chance (I'd say 70%) it would have fallen off if he hadn't run and grabbed it first - but it almost certainly would have fallen into the basket because the basket was leaning a bit.

2a. My opponent told me it was touching the chains, and that meant that it was supported by the chains - and therefore was holed out. Is touching the chains enough (assume that, if you moved the chain that that the disc was touching away from the disc, that the disc would move or settle)? I think so, but I'm not certain.

2b. If touching the chains is enough, I never had an opportunity to see if it was touching, because he ran and grabbed it first.

I told him that being able to grab the disc before it fell didn't make a difference, but it was simply a question of whether the disc has come to rest - and if it fell after it had come to rest, because of a wind gust or some other force acting upon it, that would change the fact that it was in. He assured me otherwise.

He was being nice, and he was certainly sincere - and at that point I really didn't care about the point as he was just way better than me, and miles ahead in our match. I just let him have the hole (his was a birdie putt, and I was underneath the basket with a gimme par putt). I'm really just curious what is actually correct.

Also for consideration, it was a little breezy, and I guess it's possible that it could have kept swinging for a long time due to the breeze (maybe indefinitely?), so how do you know when it has come to rest?

As I said he was a nice guy and fun to play with, and this really had no impact on our match. I'm just curious.
Craig
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:32 pm
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Apothecary » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:12 pm

pdga rules school wrote:These changes for holing out mean calls for the “putting tree” photo shown below that was in the Rules School story on Interference need to be updated. Under the old rules, only the yellow disc would not have been considered holed out when the player removed it. Under 2011 rules, the white and red discs are holed out (IN). The yellow disc as before and the orange disc hanging on the nub outside the basket are NOT IN. The orange disc balancing on the rim, which used to be considered IN, is now considered OUT in the 2011 rules because the disc is not entirely supported by the pole, inner wall or bottom of the basket. The orange wedgie is now NOT IN if the group observed it wedge from the outside. If the group did not see it or watched it clear the top basket wire then wedge on the way out, it is IN.


Image
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Apothecary
Freaky Jesus
User avatar
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:35 am
Favorite Disc: Ion/Comet

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Craig » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:39 pm

Regarding the picture - Why would the white disc be considered in, but not the yellow? It looks like the white is hanging from an internal eyelet/hook, not a chain link. I don't see how it is any more or less supported by the chains than the yellow which is hanging from an outer eyelet/hook.
Craig
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:32 pm
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Apothecary » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:48 pm

thats how it is because the rule gods say thats how it is. :lol:

i thought the same thing. doesnt look like its "entirely supported by the pole, inner wall or bottom of the basket" to me. crown ≠ pole, inner wall or bottom of the basket.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Apothecary
Freaky Jesus
User avatar
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:35 am
Favorite Disc: Ion/Comet

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Craig » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:56 pm

It would be nice to have Chuck's input as well, as I'm also curious about grabbing the disc while its still swinging.
Craig
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:32 pm
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Apothecary » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:20 pm

pdga rulebook: 803.13B wrote:
Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or above the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.


if the disc was swinging, it had not come to rest and he had therefore not legally holed out. kind of a moot point because, if it had come to rest hanging, it still wouldnt count.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Apothecary
Freaky Jesus
User avatar
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:35 am
Favorite Disc: Ion/Comet

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Redisculous » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:52 am

The guy who interfered with the disc before it came to rest incurs a 2 stroke penalty and still has to hole out. I'm pretty sure he'd have to putt again.
Anode | Comet | Axis |Vector | PPD | SPD | CPD
Redisculous
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:17 am
Location: Southern Wisconsin, where the best courses are in Illinois!
Favorite Disc: Axis

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby JHern » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:33 am

Craig wrote:Regarding the picture - Why would the white disc be considered in, but not the yellow? It looks like the white is hanging from an internal eyelet/hook, not a chain link. I don't see how it is any more or less supported by the chains than the yellow which is hanging from an outer eyelet/hook.


I agree. This is a very strange case, and the rules don't seem very clear on this instance...even if most groups would probably consider the disc to be "in" for the white disc without much debate, the rules need clarification.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
JHern
Please ask me about my insider info on pros! Oh GOD please ask me!
User avatar
 
Posts: 2619
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:50 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Favorite Disc: Clutch

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby dehaas » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:50 pm

i putted through the facemask with a gummy evo wizard yesterday for the first time. i thought the putt was low and was already bending down to pick up my mini and then heard chains to look up and see my disc in the basket. the guy i was playing with asked if it went in...he saw it going to miss low also and took his eye off the basket. crazy stuff i tell you.
dehaas
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:10 pm
Location: Lebanon, IL
Favorite Disc: wizard

Re: Made shot or no?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:07 pm

The white disc probably isn't a good example primarily since I'm not sure how a disc could get to that position, considering what I needed to do to jam it in there. It was actually touching the inner chains but not really "supported" by them. I think the words in the rule may need to be changed from "chains" to "deflection assembly" to better deal with baskets that may not have chains in the middle.
Chuck Kennedy
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1652
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:42 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Next

Return to Rules Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron