Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

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Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:59 am

Would like some input, as I'm currently building a new bag since some form breakthroughs I'm having... I have 3 discs that are pretty much a lock at this point, and I need to fill in the gaps around them. My only limitation is I feel like Speed 9 is my max for now as far as intended flight ratings are concerned... Anything higher than that starts flying more stable than intended...

My 3 that I want to build around right now are:

Leopard (169 star is my workhorse driver right now)
MD2
Pure

Right now I only have a P-MD2 so I have a Roc in the bag covering the more overstable shots and headwinds (have a stack of rocs so I don't feel the need to buy a new C-MD2 for now). I have a Hydra that I like for saftey net purposes and when I need something more stable than the Pure... If this changes anything for your suggestions, I tend to throw on lower line drive type of lines. I get more fade than I like when I start trying to throw higher. I guess I've not mastered the throw higher with nose down thing yet, but I play with it from time to time in the field. Also I try to lean as much towards minimalism as I can because it keeps me from thinking too much. Thanks guys!
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:18 am

TeeBird or Eagle for your straight to slightly overstable needs (the Leopard will get flippy), Banshee for overstable (or a Firebird, if you're looking for overstability anyway some extra probably won't hurt), Valkyrie for all out max D. Personally I'd change the Hydra to the Prodiscus JOKERi, but that's just me.

You'd end up with:

Pure
Hydra

MD2
Roc

Leopard
TeeBird/Eagle
Banshee/Firebird

Valkyrie

If going for a more minimalist approach I'd can the Leopard and beat in a DX Eagle (even in different plastics it can only do either straight or understable, and won't be as resistant to wind as an Eagle or TeeBird), use Star and DX Eagle-Xs for most driving duties (in different stages of wear), either boot the Roc and learn to power down on fairway drivers if you need overstability or boot the MD2 and cycle Rocs in different stages of wear, boot the Hydra and make do with the Pure and finally add the Firebird and Valkyrie:

Pure

Various Rocs (or MD2)

Eagle
Firebird

Valkyrie

Eagle-Ls or beat in Eagle-Xs can also be pretty long, so you might even be able to drop the Valk.

I could work that bag nicely.
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:30 am

Having both the Pure/Hydra and Roc/MD2 doesn't bother me from a minimalist persective because I know where the difference is. Also playing at the Lake course at Winthrop, having the Hydra in the bag helps me make throws without being scared of the water so it tends to stay in my bag even if just in a side pocket..

I've fought back and forth with the Eagle-X's. There is a thread here where I got input on the Tbird/Leo combo vs the Eagle-X and got mixed results. Tried it out myself with some used DX's from PIAS and was sold when I went to the field the first time, but I think it was all in my head. I've not had much luck with the Eagle's even though I WANT to... Maybe I've just not given them a decent shot, but my current Star Leo and a reallly nicely beat Pro Leo that I have are two of the best flying discs I have. Currently I have a teebird in the bag to compliment it, though I actually don't wind up using it a lot. The Eagles usually work their way back out of the bag when I throw both the Teebird and Leo farther in the field. Maybe its just me. Picked up a DX Valk the other day to give it a shot seeing as how I've NEVER really thrown any. Also using a Star FL right now for my overstable since I lost my last good flat champ FB. Had this one laying around so I wanted to see if it would work just as well for me.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:52 am

If the Eagle is not your thing and a TeeBird Leo combination works, go for it. Helps if you also find some of the more stable TeeBirds that fade more than your average TBs.

Haven't thrown the FL myself but could see it working for you.

I'd probably go for a champ or star Valk instead of a DX, those things fly long but from all that I've seen they beat up REAL fast. A Star Valk will have a much longer life span.
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:06 am

well I went DX to get a feel for the disc, if I like it and it sticks I will probably get a higher end plastic. I'll give the Eagle's another shot as well. Like I said, I really WANT them to work, just hasn't for me so far. I may need to actually play a round with them as opposed to just field work and see how they work out. But for now the Leo is what's getting most of my driver throws...
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:20 am

Hopefully you'll find something that works. You're going to need a stable to overstable partner for your Leos at some point.
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:15 pm

Yeah, and I've been carrying a Teebird or two in the bag with them, but for a while now the Leos have been the main driver in my bag. I'm going to try my EagleX's out again and see if they can stick. An eagle was the first driver I ever owned and I loved it. First time out with my own discs I had a gateway putter (either warlock or wizard, I don't know) 2 rocs and 2 eagles... Then I got a lot of discs people gave me and then went out and bought an Innova Discarrier and felt I should fill it up with what I had. This consisted of (if I can remember off the top of my head)

Omega SS
Aviar (DX, RPro)
Roc
Shark
Coyote
Cobra
Stingray
Pro Leo, Champ Teebird, Champ Eagle L, a few DX Eagle X, Champ Roadrunner, Star Roadrunner, 2 Firebirds, Monarch, Champ Beast, Star Starfire, Pro and Champ Wraith, Star Max, Star Destroyer... That's just what I can remember off the top of my head..

Just anything anyone gave me, it was in the bag, and I didn't know how to throw ANY of them... Came to my senses finally in part by reading on here and ditched pretty much all of it... This is why I say I "lean" towards minimalism now. But I'm not looking for a true minimalist bag with as few of molds possible. Just don't ever want to encroach THAT place again... With my putter and mid, I like the Pure and the P MD2 right now... but I know I need something a little more stable at times so I keep my Hydra and a Roc in there as well... Would put a C-MD2 in but with a stack of rocs I might as well use them for now, but I want the Pure and P-MD2 there so they have to have a compliment. I know hydra's aren't very popular, but I like the grip and they save me from head games when playing near water...

Then right now I have my leopards, which I have been using as my "workhorse" driver. I know they don't cover EVERYTHING so I wanted some input to cover the gaps and to see what people suggested. I've been throwing 3 leopards (the 169 star, a pretty beat up 168 pro, and a 172 pro that's like brand new) a 174 pro teebird, the dx valk and star FL. I tossed my old Roadrunner back in the bag for kicks the other day but haven't thrown it again yet since I quit strong arming it.

If I'm not mistaken Barry Schultz throws leos as his main fairway drivers does he not? I think typically when I see his bag listed out he has a few Leo's and either a Teebird or a TL thrown in with them...
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:05 pm

Yeah, Barry rocks the shit out of them Leos. =)

Nothing wrong with the Leo being your main driver, it just needs a more overstable companion for when it gets windy etc. and it seems you've already found that in the TeeBird.

I actually like the Hydra myself, it flies nice and the plastic felt good at least the last time I handled them. I do prefer the JOKERi for that slot however. It's a great driving putter with surprisingly little low speed fade considering it can take howling headwinds and a full power rip in stride. It's pretty fast and doesn't glide too much (but put some spin on it and will fly) and especially in Premium it's great for hyzer approaches and shot that you don't want to get away in the wind. That, and it is the best putter I've ever thrown forehand, and all of the ones I've seen have been totally consistent, I could put any of them in the bag and not worry about a thing. It won't float though. =)
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:57 pm

That sounds pretty much like what I get out of the Hydra. I'm picky on my putter grips. I always threw Aviars but I've never been sold on the grip. The Hydras had the best grip to me out of Innova's lines, but it was too overstable for my only putter mold (and never seems to break in quite honestly). JR recently turned me on to the Pure and I have fallen in love. Oh and that floating part helps me quite a bit throwing rounds here at Winthrop Lake :-P

BTW, I see you have the GM in your bag. I've always liked the smaller diameter mids like the Cro Spider and Skeeter, but I've never been able to find a good slot for them in my bag. What do you use the GM for and how do you work around it?
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:36 pm

Crosseyed0811 wrote:BTW, I see you have the GM in your bag. I've always liked the smaller diameter mids like the Cro Spider and Skeeter, but I've never been able to find a good slot for them in my bag. What do you use the GM for and how do you work around it?
Oh, damn, I need to change that... There we go, gone.

I don't actually have it in my bag any more due to throwing the shit out of my various MD2s. I used to throw them as my moderately overstable mid range because they weren't as susceptible to OAT as the MD1, and faded more on longer shots. If the overstable ones consistently stayed overstable I'd have a reason to keep them in, but as it is they tend to get pretty neutral fairly quickly, and I like the speed and glide of the MD2 better. I used to have a D-GM as an understable mid range, but now that the D-MD2 is out I don't need even that any more. Basically they don't do anything I can't get done with the MD2, and the huge dome on the Discmania ones slows them down in the wind much more than my flat C-MD2s.

Anyway, the GM can handle the Roc thing (this is what Jussi Meresmaa basically uses his for), at least sort of. It's going to be faster and not as floaty, but a new one doesn't really turn and has a very decent fade, some of them are even Dronelike. The overkill overstability doesn't last for more than a week or two at most, but the regular fade does hang around for quite a while. After some seasoning (my most used S-GM was a year old when it started be at this point) they just fly straight and hold the angle you give them. Good, except for the lack of glide, and I prefer the MD2 for that sort of stuff.

A good disc but in the end it doesn't fit my game all that well, and like you I can't really find a good slot for it in my bag. Who knows though? I'm currently auditioning the Vector for the overstable mid slot, maybe I'll throw the GM back in and give it another go. I still have an S-Line I've barely touched, should be plenty stable.
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:27 am

So... you throw the TD as well. I've always been currious about it but never threw it. I DID pick up one C-PD at one point, but it was too beefy and I didn't give it time to break in (bad habit of that lately :( ) Do you think I could fit a TD in here? Would it kick the valk out? Or would it more closely resemble my Leos? If its close to the leo's what would be the advantages to a TD rather than a Leo? I've just been VERY interested in this disc ever since I heard about it but have shied away from it since its only available in S and C here...
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:51 pm

I'm sure I've written this down here many times, but I posted this write up yesterday over at DGCR:
S-TDs come in two flavors: The stiffer neutral stability ones, most often found between the weights of 168-172g, and the gummier ones that are less stable, most I've seen have been closer to max weight. The stable ones can be thrown over 350' with little to no turn, and can handle over 400' frozen ropes. They also don't fade much, and do hold anhyzers nicely, fighting out of them at the end. These are my favorite ones, because they do beat in with time to become truly understable, and you get a nice stable disc before that happens.

The gummier ones have noticeable turn out of the box and can be used for understable shots readily. They also hold anhyzers like you wouldn't belive. They can be used for Roadrunner type distance shots, but do be warned, they're still not as understable as Roadrunners and won't turn as much. The -2 turn 1 fade rating seems to be pretty accurate. Out of these understable ones I prefer the max weight red champystars, they just seem most consistent for me.

Then there are the C-Lines, which also come in two varieties: Regular and +mold. There are both available with the production stamp, but the ones with the regular rim are actually from an earlier CFR run. All of the production run ones were accidentally (or not, may be related to the patent thing) run with a slanted +mold core piece. The regular rimmed C-Lines are usually the least stable TDs out of the box (ignoring the D-TD), and the +molds are about right in the middle of the stable S-TDs and the flippy S-TDs. These two can easily be told apart even if you don't feel a difference (though you should be able to tell instantly, the difference is huge): The CFR run ones have a patent number on the bottom, the slanted production runs don't. Both are great though.

All TDs have great glide, are easy to power down on and have very gradual movements, maybe caused by the convex wing adding more plastic to the rim (increased gyroscopiness). My beat flippy S-TDs for example still turn very slowly, but they turn for almost all of the flight and can climb out of pretty steep hyzers. This makes it possible to throw some lines that a faster flipping discs simply wouldn't do.

And yeah, the TD does share it's wing with the Roadrunner with some tweaks (wider rim width for example), but it doesn't have a TeeRex top, just the normal anhyzer top found in all other Discmania drivers.
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby jubuttib » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:54 pm

Compared to the Valk: Valk is more of an S-curve disc, whereas the TD usually goes in just one direction. If it turns over it won't really fight hard to get back. Depending on the stability of your particular one (as specified above) you could go left, right or straight, but multiple directions are harder to pull off.

Compared to a Leo: Way more stable (usually), much faster and much longer.
Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:10 pm

So the PD and TD are both straight discs? <noob> I guess but how people consider the 2 of them a good pair but a teebird needs something more "workable" to go with it? </noob>
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Re: Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:20 pm

Crosseyed0811 wrote:So the PD and TD are both straight discs? <noob> I guess but how people consider the 2 of them a good pair but a teebird needs something more "workable" to go with it? </noob>


I would say that the PD/TD combo is like a faster Teebird/Leopard combo.

The PD is your stable driver that takes headwinds and always wants to finish left (RHBH), and the TD is like a more stable leopard that wants to stay on the line you put it, but will still fade depending on the shot. The reason they go together so well is that they almost feel identical in the hand because they share the same top mold, and because in these 2 molds you can cover almost all of your driver slots, assuming one's arm is capable of handing a 9 speed disc as your main driver. I'm at a place where 7 speed drivers are best for my workhorse discs, so I throw a TB/River combo.
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