Ignoring my current bag thread for now...

[Crosseyed0811]

I see Joes lists the Beast and Valk as pretty much the same with the Beast having less fade... Does that sound about right to anyone else? If the Valk is a little too much fade on the end would be Beast be a better disc for me maybe?

[7ontheline]

I had a dx beast that turned into a hyzer flipper pretty quick and lost most of its fade. One of my good friends throws a champ beast for max distance and it can handle a slight headwind. He throws it 360ish on average and it still fades well. The valk and beast both worked well for my hyzer flip and would track right with late fade when I was topping out around 350'. That 167 dx beast would accidentally fly well over 400' at that time when I had some issues with my release/shanking. The Beast loves flat but remember its a speed 10 and might be too much at 300' power so if you must I recommend you buy it used. Actually, buy all your discs used or better yet borrow your buddy's discs or better than that get a beat teebird and REALLY LEARN to push it out there past 300' before moving up in speed. Sunspot, here on DGR, gave me the best advice I've gotten on this forum when he told me to work on my teebird distance instead of buying one of his used PDs. I took that advice and learned the high anny max D line.

My same buddy also throws a star sidewinder for some long finesse s-curves. Read up on sidewinders if you're looking for less fade, its like your fav list Leo but longer. Use the Valk for headwinds at your current distance and get a dx sidewinder for distance you can't reach with your Leo. Keep it lightweight for Max D. I throw far but most of my distance drivers are still 170 or less.

[Crosseyed0811]

Thanks for the tips,

Already throwing several teebirds. Just got them up to 300 this past week and working them farther... We've been playing with what disc might give me more than the teebirds and such. Already mentioned in this thread I buy used any time I can, the valk -km throwing was from PIAS used selection. Already mentioned throwing roadrunners here as well but wanting something that could handle headwinds better so we were looking at the Valk first and if it didn't suit me moving to something else like the TD or Beast. That's why I had brought up the beast again because the one issue I may have with thee Valk was the strong fade. I knew a TD would be straighter flight and that wasn't an issue for me, so I was looking at the fade which bothered me and said lighter weight or more beat in may help, then came back after noticing the Joes ratings and wondered if the beast would be similar flight wwith less fade.

BTW, typing on the blackberry so pardon the brevity, I'm sure it may come across as rude, I appreciate the input, was just pointing out where some of it had been adressed already.

[jubuttib]

I haven't thrown a lot of different Beasts (166 Champ and a few 17X Pros), but they all had more fade than the Valks I've thrown.

[Crosseyed0811]

Ok, Do valks lose LSS faster than HSS? I think I'm gonna try the valks for a little while longer, either pick up a lighter weight one or see if this one will break in more. I don't NEED them right now at my current power levels, maybe when I hit my next platue it'll be one where the valks are very usable...

[JR]

My non DX Valks are less HSS and more LSS than my non DX Beasts. And i have all plastics in Beasts and different weights and all plastics and several different weights in Valks. DX Valks and Beasts are flippy when broken in and it happens way too quickly.

[Crosseyed0811]

My non DX Valks are less HSS and more LSS than my non DX Beasts. And i have all plastics in Beasts and different weights and all plastics and several different weights in Valks. DX Valks and Beasts are flippy when broken in and it happens way too quickly.

See there it is again... Lol I don't know what I'm going to do. Probably stick with my Leo/Teebird combo for all course purposes for now and keep working my Valk in the field. Also will keep an eye out for a good champ Beast in the used bin... Thanks for the advice here guys, you've all helped out a lot. I'm probably done here in this thread now. Back to my "Current Bag" thread (which will be updated later).

[JR]

Older Beasts were flippier and in the same range of HSS than Valks. Older Beasts of the new mold that is. Beasts of the new mold from this year and the last are more HSS and won't turn for me at full power if they are above 166 grams in weight.

[Crosseyed0811]

Another good reason to not get into throwing Beasts, the inconsistencies of what Beast you're actually getting. I wasn't thinking about that.

I do have another question now. I have always thrown Firebirds for all my overstable stuff. Thumbers, forehands, spike hyzers, skip shots... However its next to useless for me as a headwind driver, the wind doesn't effect it obviously, but it still doesn't go anywhere. Its too much disc for me, and too much disc for a lot of people from what I understand. I've been trying out an FL in that slot since I lost my last good champ FB, but I'm thinking its still too fast. Thinking about trying a champ banshee in that slot. I know the Banshee doesn't exactly cover the Firebird slot, but I think it will do all the things I used the Firebird for as well as be more useable as a headwind driver and spike hyzer disc in my current power range. I've never thrown a Banshee before so this is pure speculation of what it "would" do but from what I understand this is the case. Any thoughts here?

[Fightingthetide]

I can't speak about Firebirds or FL's or Banshees, but I can say a PD will go really far into a headwind.

[Crosseyed0811]

I can't speak about Firebirds or FL's or Banshees, but I can say a PD will go really far into a headwind.

I don't quite have the arm for a PD right now

[Fightingthetide]

I can't speak about Firebirds or FL's or Banshees, but I can say a PD will go really far into a headwind.

I don't quite have the arm for a PD right now

They need less arm than a firebird, from what I have heard. I only use mine for strong forearm shots and for the very overstable/wind/overhand slot.

[Crosseyed0811]

I can't speak about Firebirds or FL's or Banshees, but I can say a PD will go really far into a headwind.

I don't quite have the arm for a PD right now

They need less arm than a firebird, from what I have heard. I only use mine for strong forearm shots and for the very overstable/wind/overhand slot.

I don't know that there are many discs out there that require as much arm as a Firebird. But that's what a Firebird is, you can get away with throwing it with less arm because you probably werent expecting to throw it straight anyway. It hooks hard and that's what you wanted whether you can throw 450 or 250. I can't make much use out of anything much speed 9 right now (I have my Roadrunner there just cause I can flip it easier than any of my Leo's right now). The only time I throw my Firebird BH is when I am wanting a hard cut to the left or am skipping it. I throw overhead and forehand with it mostly. I was looking for something I could do those things with AND make use of with my backhand when I needed to. I picked up a Champ Banshee yesterday though, but forgot to come post about it here. I'm gonna see what I think of it today and go from there.


Starting to see another possible "hole" in my bag. Might not be a necessary thing but its something I may would like. I'm thinking something like a Wolf or a Wedge for shorter really undertstable stuff. Hyzer flips and trick shots and such. Not sure what I'm gonna do about it yet though, feel free to suggest stuff

[Hyzerline49]

the banshee will be alot more "usable" than the firebird. if you dont have success with the banshee, try a lighter weight esp pred. i garauntee that you will love it.

[Crosseyed0811]

So far the Banshee is great! Get more distance out of my thumbers and the big hyzers than I ever did on my Firebirds. Can use it backhand as well into the wind so its doing what I want. Only "problem" with it is my forehand. Just a quick little snap of the wrist and it takes off, dead straight. This is a WONDERFUL thing for my forehand drives, BUT I may still want something that has a little more hook on the end even as a forehand driver.