Stuck at 450'

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Stuck at 450'

Postby Mike C » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:47 pm

I can't get that last 50'. I'm just trying to hit 500' by late October for the Monster tourney. I went to a field today with Orcs, OLF's, Destroyers, Forces and Nukes, and just couldn't do it. Here's some footage of me throwing this summer, I can upload something more recent and strictly related to distance throws if anyone thinks it would help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvo1gFhV-LE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeRgGHT2vSY&t=5m09s

Today during my fieldwork session I experimented with gripping harder, trying to add active wrist snap at the hit, slowing down my first 2 steps in my x-step, and trying to release later because I think I'm releasing a bit too early. Still didn't seem to gain any D though.

Also I'm wondering what sort of lines and heights should I be throwing for the D I'm after? With a Destroyer I try to release flat, let it glide over to the right for a bit before the fade kicks in. Same idea with the OLF but I aim about 10' higher and use more hyzer, and let it take a bit more of an S curve line.

I suspect nose down issues because I can park 380' holes with a putter, so that should translate to at least 500' distance driver D I'd imagine. Aside from adjusting your grip to angle the nose of the disc down more, and getting the weight forward, are there any other aspects of the throw I should be paying attention to for achieving nose down?

I really want that 500' but feel like I hit a brick wall with distance.
Mike C
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:28 am
Favorite Disc: Soft Ion

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby Apothecary » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:24 pm

must be rough.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Apothecary
Freaky Jesus
User avatar
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:35 am
Favorite Disc: Ion/Comet

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby zj1002 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:33 pm

I see some early slipping. One thing I might suggest is dropping your pull line down by an inch to create more leverage. If you watch a guy like GG he has a much lower pull than say Avery Jenkings. I think this helps him create a ton more leverage. It helped me add some distance recently. Nose down is probably the other major culprit. I was like you were I spent a lot of time throwing putters/mids and when I tried to make drivers do the same things, the nose up would limit my distance. It has taken me a good year of learning drivers to be able to touch them out to 500ft on command. If you really want to get over 450ft just do a 360-throw.
Omega - QMS - MD2 - QJLS - OLF/S - DD - Scorpius
Tell me and I'll forget; Show me and I may remember; Involve me and I'll understand
zj1002
metroid cannon
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:52 pm
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Disc: QMS

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby JR » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:13 pm

Looking at the first video you raise the left leg up before the disc leaves. The leg should fly forward and right to the right of the right leg touching the right leg. Or stay on the ground. Getting the nose down and enough height for 500' is not only a form issue. Discs that start hyzered raise as they are on a hyzer angle and maybe inches more from the previous upward momentum in the early part of flight so a suitably light and understable enough disc will gain enough height to go 500 when flipped from hyzer to anny at the apex. A super gliding disc that is slow pops up immensely just look at a flight of a Kite. Well gliding distance drivers do the same in a lesser manner.

Then there is the throwing technique part. Your first vid showed the disc to be lower at the reach back than at the hit. The higher the angle of the rising of the disc the more the wrist needs to be down and if it ain't enough you need to lean forward. I have surgery induced abnormal anatomy in my throwing arm so i can't tell you what to do exactly from personal successful experience. Also because i also struggle to keep the wrist down enough. It's ok when i concentrate, but it tires me out fast.

So i'd try different versions. One is the wrist down from the get go muscles stiff and range of motion of the wrist snap limited version. The other is a bitch to learn and time. There you have the arm neutral a little after the elbow chop beginning moment. Where exactly you push the wrist down depends on your wrist speed, the speed of the throw and the muscle power you have for pushing down the wrist. The weaker the wrist the more it will benefit from the downward momentum of the latest possible beginning of the wrist push down. The bones in the wrist raise the hand from the wrist, when you move the hand from cocked back by the elbow shop to hand shaking neutral position. So if you were like Marty Peters in the Discraft video more distance now and managed to resist the wrist bending back and instead hyper spinned by turning the wrist actively 10-15 degrees right of the hand shaking position and then stopped the wrist with a steely stop and according to masterbeato pinched like a mother and rammed that wrist down you should see improvement.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11473
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby Jeronimo » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:17 pm

You're stuck at just about the same exact spot I am and it looks to me like we're both struggling with the same thing. Judging from your drives I've got to say it's nose down and weight forward.
I am dumb.

...and a drama queen.
Jeronimo
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: Maine
Favorite Disc: Pure

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby seabas22 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:37 pm

I agree with JR...looks like you don't resist the bending, and your elbow never really gets forward of the shoulder and bringing the disc into the body instead of guiding it and keeping it in a straight line. Forearm looks off plane to the shoulders and not quite getting the hips into the throw.
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby 7ontheline » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:42 am

Mike C wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvo1gFhV-LE

Also I'm wondering what sort of lines and heights should I be throwing for the D I'm after? With a Destroyer I try to release flat, let it glide over to the right for a bit before the fade kicks in. Same idea with the OLF but I aim about 10' higher and use more hyzer, and let it take a bit more of an S curve line.

I really want that 500' but feel like I hit a brick wall with distance.


Hey Hoss, it looks to me like you've got plenty of power to get it well past 450'. In the first video starting at 40 seconds you're powering over your drive on a hyzer flip turnover line. I did the same thing but with flippier discs like the katana and vulcan but they're too inconsistant in a wind and when they do turnover from higher anny lines they don't flex back forward like a more stable disc will. Sorry I can't help like others here on communicating the technical points but if its just a distance line I've got some ideas regarding a higher anny max D line you asked about in the OP.

Visualize this from the first video's 40 second mark point of view. I'd say that the down range apex height of that throw (when the disc must turn completely over to the right )is about half what I'm looking for my Z Nuke and about 10' lower than what I need to turn my Sword. The same first video 1 minute mark throw needs about 2-1/2 times the height at its apex for my Nuke. Anyway, start at the back right of the box with a run up line of the first big lone tree you come to on the left, duh... front left of box. I'm talking about the big lone tree just left of your hyzer flip line, currently your run up is 30-40' right of said tree. I'm usually thinking FOR MY Z NUKE that I need to have that angled left anny run up and then YANK the disc high and across my body with the intention of it riding that anny line all the way to ground to land on a line to the right of the little scrub tree/bush. You know the little tree way out 375' or so in the middle of the field in your vid. I'm not saying have it anny way out there to land right of the bush but the disc needs to track back that far during its turn to the right. When I half hit this line, My Z Nuke starts the turn around 300' but only turns about 30 feet or so right before it fades out from way high only to land left of the tee pad's direction or in line with tee pad for 440' or 460' on average respectively. However, when I pull the disc over and it really accellerates through that downward bending turn it'll travel as far right as the small tree or further then start flexing at about 20' high from there.

I like how your 3 step x-step is basically perpendicular to your target line, I use that for small boxes and control shots. Personally, I'm old and use a 5 step right foot forward towards the target line then step 45 degree or more to the left with my left foot then I'm perpendicular for my 3 step x-step. I also shorten it to 4 steps when the box is raised starting facing my target line then 45 degree left foot moving into x-step from there. However after watching you I see your right foot pointed almost 135 degrees away from your run up line. I might just steal that as I'm not getting my back to the target nearly enough or getting all possible reachback.

Another thing, I haven't thrown a destroyer but I have a tournament (star) sword which I've heard described as destroyerish and a seasoned champ orc. I can't put as much anny angle OR yank the Sword to the right due to less HSS and less LSS. If I try to pull the Sword over like my Nuke it turns and burns. My Orc has lost a fair amout of its LSS so it can take the higher bending anny line BUT again I don't try to turn it over as far right as the Z Nuke. Therefore the Orc apex anny angle is less steep than the Nuke and my sword needs to be even flatter anny with even less pull it over to the right. My best throw with the Nuke was 550' a couple weeks ago while the best throw with the Sword and Orc are both around 480' but they average around 440' to 450' on that high anny line. I'm thinking that I'll hit a few more trees with the sword to loosen up the HSS so it can turnover and be able to get good controlled golf line D with just a flatish pull. Currently, my sword wont turn over on a line you're currently throwing and will max out around 425'.

Hey check out my 7ontheline vid in the technique section around the 8:20 minute mark. I wasn't really warmed up and both the sword and orc were about 15-20' low and landed around the 430'+ mark; totally flubbed the Nuke. :oops: One more thing, I've thrown a buddy's newish Z Nuke and it was a lot harder to turn over and the fade kicked in a lot sooner than my seasoned 7/10. I could tell it had the potential for 500'+ but just needed a lot of 20' away full power big tree wacks... prabably not so many if you're chopping wood. Cool Ion vid BTW, haven't had time to read your I'm switching from Wizards thread yet but I will.
Magic / Judge / PA2 - Tursas / QMS / Buzzz / Mace - QJ / E / F - Renegade / O / D1

JHern wrote:If your putter isn't your favorite disc, get a new putter.
7ontheline
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:23 pm
Location: Midtown Memphis, TN
Favorite Disc: Judge

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby Smigles » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:07 pm

This instruction helped me alot, and it's only 2 minutes : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5_I3ylBdjA
Smigles
Steward Turkeylink: This ranks means I can't read or follow basic directions
User avatar
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:09 am
Favorite Disc: Aviar,Wasp,Nuke

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby ken3592 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:25 pm

About the line of the drive... When GG throws his 800' drives, he throws the disc SOOOO high. The idea is to give the disc as much room as possible to gain distance on the turnover and then have plenty of room to fade back.
ken3592
Noob
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:36 pm

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby LtDan914 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:33 pm

Smigles wrote:This instruction helped me alot, and it's only 2 minutes : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5_I3ylBdjA


Whenever I want to learn something, I always go to expert village for their amazing videos :(

To the OP. I am in the same boat as you are and there are a few things I think I need to work on for my throw which are: shift weight from back to forward rather than center to forward, work on getting the nose down, and trying a lower pull line which might also help with nose down. These things might also help you get to the desired 500'
PD2 | Destroyer | PD | Sidewinder | Roc | Rhyno | Wizard
#45686
LtDan914
Noob
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Louisville, Ky
Favorite Disc: PD

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby 7ontheline » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:53 pm

Hey that's me in that video... I didn't realize my left foot passed in front of my right during my x-step.... ahhh, please ignore my ramblings above. Sorry sir and best of luck.
Magic / Judge / PA2 - Tursas / QMS / Buzzz / Mace - QJ / E / F - Renegade / O / D1

JHern wrote:If your putter isn't your favorite disc, get a new putter.
7ontheline
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:23 pm
Location: Midtown Memphis, TN
Favorite Disc: Judge

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby Smigles » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:45 am

7ontheline wrote:Hey that's me in that video...


You are not serious, are you ? Otherwise I need to have a word with you.

And sorry for the vid, I just saw it on youtube and had to post it somewhere. Next time I'll go over to DGCR for it :)
Smigles
Steward Turkeylink: This ranks means I can't read or follow basic directions
User avatar
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:09 am
Favorite Disc: Aviar,Wasp,Nuke

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:44 am

Smigles wrote:This instruction helped me alot, and it's only 2 minutes : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5_I3ylBdjA



TOTALLY GOT ME!!! AWESOME!!!
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:46 am

The chances that you are going to throw bullets that far are almost nill... You will have to start learning a flex shot line... Which is hard...
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Re: Stuck at 450'

Postby 7ontheline » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:22 am

Bradley Walker wrote:The chances that you are going to throw bullets that far are almost nill... You will have to start learning a flex shot line... Which is hard...


Thank you Bradley and well said... perhaps something a little more understable than your Force or Nuke. JR liked the King and seasoned DD2 and Jubuttib calls the King a "cheater disc" but I recall reading at one point he preferred the DD2 for easy distance. My first impression yesterday on the King was that it worked well with my hyser flip turned over s-curve line. It needs a fair amout of left to right room to work though. Per JRs advise I got a domey King and so far its in the bag just maybe not into a headwind.
Magic / Judge / PA2 - Tursas / QMS / Buzzz / Mace - QJ / E / F - Renegade / O / D1

JHern wrote:If your putter isn't your favorite disc, get a new putter.
7ontheline
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:23 pm
Location: Midtown Memphis, TN
Favorite Disc: Judge

Next

Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests

cron