What's wrong here?

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What's wrong here?

Postby harkerj » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:45 pm

Hello all,

New to this game and new to this board, I promise I'll do my research but I'm heading out to buy a disc before the round this evening and I have a quick question.

Right now I'm using a 168g Champion Monarch (Speed 10) as my distance driver. My "home" course is very wide open and I'm very happy with how I throw this disc. RHBH, it comes out flat, drifts to the right a bit, straightens out, then fades left at the end, repeatable and predictable. I can throw it about 300' on average, further if I realy nail one. (Yes, I'm already looking into the "Maxxing out at 300'" thread!)

So I got cocky the other day and bought a 172g Champion Groove (Speed 13) to try. Can't throw the damn thing. No matter what I do, as soon as it comes out of my hand, the disc tilts at about a 45 degree angle, swerves hard left, and dives.

My question is, is it the weight? Does 4g really make a difference (168 vs. 172)? Or is it the speed of the disc (10 vs. 13)? Or something else I am not aware of in my noobiness?

Also, any advice on what I should be looking at for my next disc to get a little more distance? Or should I simply try to learn to throw better to get more out of the Monarch?

Thanks in advance,
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby NCStatePlaya » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:58 pm

Its a groove...enough said.

No really...I've never thrown one, have just heard horror stories about the discs inconsistancies. Seriously, I'm no one to tell you what disc to throw, but I think you should pick up some slower discs before jumping onto the warp bandwagon. You'd be surprised, but you can easily throw a speed 7 disc just as far as you are throwing your monarch now. It just sounds like the speed 13 discs are just too much for you right now.

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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby NoLifeLeft » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

A lot of Grooves are overstable, glideless pigs and fly nothing like their rating numbers. Those flight numbers are straight up LIES.
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby MDP » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:07 pm

A 4g difference would not account for the un-throwable overstability of the Groove. Groove's are a notoriously inconsistent mold, however, I would guess it's the speed difference. The Groove is more stable than the Monarch, but not by that much.

In general the speed rating does indicate how far a disc will go, but it also indicates how fast the disc needs to be thrown in order to achieve it's intended flight path.

For disc recommendations, I would actually recommend something slower than the Monarch. At the distance you're throwing, a slightly slower disc may actually add distance since you'll have an easier time getting them up to speed.

In order of stability (high - low) the discs I would recommend:

Speed 9(ish):
PD (Freak) (in P-Line plastic)
Starfire-L (SL)
Orion LS

You may even consider stepping down to fairway drivers:

Fairway Drivers:
TeeBird-L (TL)

There are a number of good discs in these speeds so find one that fits comfortably in your hand.
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby ashley » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:13 pm

I would say your distance is similar to mine. I throw Valkyries, Leopards and Teebirds. You might be able to throw an ORC well, but I would recommend looking for a 158-162. Tl's also do well for my distance. Honestly until you are getting past 325-350 consistently I wouldn't recommend anything faster than a 9.

The only thing a groove is good for is a laugh when I throw it.

Honestly you aren't going to get much if anything out of the newer faster discs. My husband likes destroyers and bosses but he can throw an orc out past 400 still.
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby bomatic3 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:14 pm

i did a similar mistake when i started playing this year. i bought the hype and bought discs way faster than my capability. i have been working with the LDS, and found out that i throw a leopard 5 feet shorter than my destroyer, but the leopard is way more predictable/straight in normal weather, wind does play hell with the leopard, even though it is 175g. teebirds and buzz's have been good too.

speed really means to me, the speed of my arm required to get the disc to fly well. if you dont have a speed 11 arm, then you cant get speed 11 discs to act right. you need to work on speed, then the disc will act normal when you throw it.
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby harkerj » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:25 pm

Fantastic, thank you all for your input.

My local sporting goods store is pretty limited in terms of selection, so tonight I ended up with a 169g Champion Sidewinder. I didn't have a really good night throwing, even my trusty Monarch was all over the place. But when I was able to get good drives with both (I was playing alone since my friend had to bail), the Sidewinder went as far if not slightly further than the Monarch, with fairly similar flight characteristics - maybe a touch more fade.

So the next purchase will be a speed 8 or 7, and I'll try moving down to the lower 160s. I do have a Valkyrie that I love, but it is somewhere deep in the woods and jaggerbushes right now - I just know as soon as I go buy another one I'll get the call that someone found it.

Again, thanks to all for the advice! Now off to look at some tutorial threads!
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby JR » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:29 pm

Wrist roll may also be an issue with wider winged discs like Grooves. If the muscle power and/or finger length is an issue a wide disc may push you beyond your limits of control and something may give. The muscles and tendons maintaining proper angles are weak compared to how much the legs, hips, shoulders and the rest of the arm combined generate power.
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby harkerj » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:12 am

OK, so one last question before I order a couple more discs:

I've thrown 3 Leopards - all of them discs that I've found in the weeds (while looking for my own errant discs), and one of them clearly was runover by a lawnmower - and all of them were very understable for me. I kept one in my bag for several weeks until it's owner returned my email, and it was a great disc to use whenever I needed a big right turn (RHBH). Gave that one back and shortly thereafter found another, which turned so hard on my local dogleg right hole that it found its way back into neverneverland, and now I carry around the one that's been chewed up by a mower (which is the only reason I was able to find it). I use that one sometimes for medium approaches, it has a nice predictable fade, but as soon as I try to put anything on it, it turns over and never comes back.

Since these Leopards were all well-used, I never knew what the weights were, but they all felt pretty light to me. Would a heavier Leopard straighten out for me, or does it not work that way?

I'll wait to hear back, then I'm off to order a TL (had one before and loved it, but it went in the creek back when I had absolutely no control of how the disc would come out...) and maybe a new Leopard.
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Re: What's wrong here?

Postby Blake_T » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:50 am

So I got cocky the other day and bought a 172g Champion Groove (Speed 13) to try. Can't throw the damn thing. No matter what I do, as soon as it comes out of my hand, the disc tilts at about a 45 degree angle, swerves hard left, and dives.

it's a combination of not enough speed, nose angle, and problems with the rim width.

grooves are inconsistent but this is too overstable. there is also some indication of wrist roll under.
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