Throwing High with Nose Down

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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby kern9787 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:56 pm

swel304 wrote:
kern9787 wrote:The difference to add the height is just another axis of rotation for your torso on your throw. Just like you tilt to the angle of your hyzer/anhyzer, your reach back/pull through relative to your lower body rotates. For hyzers, its a clockwise rotation, for anhyzers, its counterclockwise, looking top down.


I am not sure I am understanding this. Some visual explanation would be awesome! lol


Let me try again. I'll try to describe the way I throw a hyzer with height, RHBH. I'm going to refer to the directions of the tee pad in reference to a clock, front being 12, back is 6, left is 9 (the side the disc passes your body on), right is 3.

If you are throwing a flat, your shoulders and disc all stay in, approximately the same plane (or parallel planes depending on how low your pull through is). This should stay consistent at all times. Now if I'm throwing hyzer, that plane rotates so that it is lower at 9 o'clock and higher at 3 o'clock. 12 and 6 should still be approximately the same height and the axis your torso rotates on (i.e. your spine) is perpendicular to this plane. To add height to my hyzer, I am rotating my torso on this tilted axis so that, at my full reach back, instead of being at 6 with the disc, its back to around 6:30 or 7.

Now if you are keeping in the same plane, this moved the disc both towards the left side of the tee pad and down, so that if your pull through is the same, the disc is coming slightly up and slightly to the right. If you were to look at the relationship between just the disc and your torso, it is 100% the same as throwing flat.

Maybe this makes more sense? Anhyzer works very similar. If it doesn't, I'll see if I can get something visual. And yes, I know this seems like a very... technical... explanation. Best I know how.

Like zj said too though, throwing far isn't about aiming really high. You are still aiming more out than up. The way I throw with this is the same way I throw steeper hyzers and anhyzers too.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby masterbeato » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:06 pm

Crosseyed0811 wrote:I've never been able to grasp the concept of throwing high with nose down. How do you go about teaching someone to do this? Any time I try to throw with any height on the disc I get nose up, and I cannot seem to fix it. Are there any drills or excercises out there or anything? I'm struggling on getting the nose down in general right now as I'm realizing I throw with a very slight nose up that causes stalls on all my drives.


Aim higher.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:24 pm

masterbeato wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote:I've never been able to grasp the concept of throwing high with nose down. How do you go about teaching someone to do this? Any time I try to throw with any height on the disc I get nose up, and I cannot seem to fix it. Are there any drills or excercises out there or anything? I'm struggling on getting the nose down in general right now as I'm realizing I throw with a very slight nose up that causes stalls on all my drives.


Aim higher.



Thank you sensei :-P
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby masterbeato » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:04 pm

haha i always have to point out the obvious when it comes to something like this. thats something i learned from blake. no better advice for that than that. because that is usually the case, and you could be trying to throw higher than your power level and/or shaping skills require, and thats also an issue too. but mostly an aiming issue.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:26 pm

masterbeato wrote:haha i always have to point out the obvious when it comes to something like this. thats something i learned from blake. no better advice for that than that. because that is usually the case, and you could be trying to throw higher than your power level and/or shaping skills require, and thats also an issue too. but mostly an aiming issue.


Well the throwing higher part isn't a problem, its the throwing with nose down when I throw higher. I guess I've learned some here in this thread so far about lines that help me a little, but I'm still fighting with some things in my head.

Take a Roc. I don't throw them up to their potential because I throw a lot of line drive shots. I know the Roc really likes nose down. I also know that the Roc has to be thrown with some height to go far. Do people generally throw a flippier Roc with a little hyzer to get height + nose down? That's the kind of throwing high with nose down that I'm struggling with. I don't try to throw "distance" lines as I don't care how far I can throw if its not useable on the golf course. But if I try to throw anything higher than say 10 ft of height I get a nose up throw that stalls about 250' into the flight. I can't put any height on it and still keep nose down. As stated earlier though I tend to try to throw flat as opposed to hyzer or anny, so that makes it harder because I'm not making use of the angle through the apex to get the nose back down as it turns or flexes. I may not be asking the right things, but maybe if I keep talking someone else can point out where I'm confused :-P
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby masterbeato » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:40 pm

you have just confirmed for me that "fighting with your head" is an aiming thing. throwing flat at a higher level is much much harder to keep nose down on higher lines, your much better off throwing either hyzer or anny actually.

as opposed to your question, basically aiming correctly brings intent to throw the disc successfully nose down and on lines. you cant throw 600' nose up with no turnover unless its nose down for most of its flight path.

generally throwing higher needs to be more focused on "intentionally" throwing it high with nose down. or in other words, "just go for it".
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby masterbeato » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:55 pm

i will add that focus and intent of hitting lines "is" focusing on nose down.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:10 pm

So my tendencies to try to throw flat and straight unless I'm going around obstacles actually hurts me, I'd be better off to work hyzers or annys for more disance and throw straight/flat when i have to? Is that what I'm sorta hearing here or am I still missing the point?
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby kern9787 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:42 pm

Crosseyed0811 wrote:So my tendencies to try to throw flat and straight unless I'm going around obstacles actually hurts me, I'd be better off to work hyzers or annys for more disance and throw straight/flat when i have to? Is that what I'm sorta hearing here or am I still missing the point?


Yes and no. If you can throw flat and straight, awesome if it works for you. I have an easier time placing shots when working hyzers or anhyzers. Its easier for me to work different lines to range my shots rather than vary my power a whole lot. In this sense, I can throw my same predator on a 400 ft shot with a slight fade at the end or a 350 ft hyzer and, mechanically, it is the same shot for me. Its a matter of the line taken to get there. For me, the less I have to vary my power, the more consistent I can play.

Now when it comes to throwing high, throwing flat and straight is virtually impossible. You need to work a hyzer or anhzyer to get the height on it, otherwise the disc will stall.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:52 pm

kern9787 wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote:So my tendencies to try to throw flat and straight unless I'm going around obstacles actually hurts me, I'd be better off to work hyzers or annys for more disance and throw straight/flat when i have to? Is that what I'm sorta hearing here or am I still missing the point?


Yes and no. If you can throw flat and straight, awesome if it works for you. I have an easier time placing shots when working hyzers or anhyzers. Its easier for me to work different lines to range my shots rather than vary my power a whole lot. In this sense, I can throw my same predator on a 400 ft shot with a slight fade at the end or a 350 ft hyzer and, mechanically, it is the same shot for me. Its a matter of the line taken to get there. For me, the less I have to vary my power, the more consistent I can play.

Now when it comes to throwing high, throwing flat and straight is virtually impossible. You need to work a hyzer or anhzyer to get the height on it, otherwise the disc will stall.


That has been what I've thought I was trying to do. See, I'm asking all the wrong questions and you guys are giving me loads of knowledge. Thanks! :)
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby masterbeato » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:03 pm

your better off throwing from some sort of degree of angle rather than throwing flat yes. trying to throw flat hurts your intent. your better off throwing hyzer and working it over or an anhyzer working it over.

youll find you are way more consistent doing that than flat.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby zj1002 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:42 am

Yeah the part about aiming higher with and "intentionally" throwing nose down is huge. All I am thinking about is forcing that nose down. The body takes over with the weight shift and such because of practice.

I am not sure if it will help but I know Blake had posted some images of how to aim through points in the air. That might be useful if anyone knows where that post is.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby uNicedmeMan » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:09 am

zj1002 wrote:I am not sure if it will help but I know Blake had posted some images of how to aim through points in the air. That might be useful if anyone knows where that post is.


Image
Image

Taken from Blake's Thread: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:18 am

uNicedmeMan wrote:
zj1002 wrote:I am not sure if it will help but I know Blake had posted some images of how to aim through points in the air. That might be useful if anyone knows where that post is.


Image
Image

Taken from Blake's Thread: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.


Thats interesting. I see what is being said but I don't know how much it translates to the golf course for me yet. Will work on this though.
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Re: Throwing High with Nose Down

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:15 pm

I think I'm starting to understand...that I know nothing of throwing lines... I am ashamed to admit it. I don't even know where to start here, but these pictures and the other thread (beato had another picture there) have revealed to me I'm missing the game here. I've always taken the straight line approach when available, played the natural fade. This might be why I've always gravitated back to the Teebird as my main driver. Would I be better off changing my fairway driver up to something like an Eagle to work on learning how to throw more this way, or would my Leo's do fine? I feel like a complete noob now lol!

BTW, I've still not gotten to the course to throw with any of this stuff in mind, I've just been thinking about it at work all day.
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