Hyzer-flipping

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Hyzer-flipping

Postby kern9787 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:29 pm

Okay, this is something I've never given much thought to, and this is directed more so for you disc-physicists. If this has already been discussed, I missed it somewhere.

I never used to be a fan of hyzer-flipping as, the way I always thought of it, it was introducing another source of error which seemed counter intuitive to trying to get a straight, reliable shot. I've realized this generally isn't the case though. For me, it is in fact much easier to throw straight with a hyzer flip than it is trying to throw flat. It seems to me at least, that a hyzer flip has a higher tendency (depending on the stability of the disc of course) of flipping up to flat and holding that angle to the straight part of the flight.

What I'm looking for is, in technical terms, why is this (or rather, does this even seem to occur for other people)?

Is it simply matter of "learning" that throw, and knowing how much the disc will turn and being able to repeat it? Or does the disc reaching a flat state when it has that initial forward momentum provide a sort of "path of least resistance?" Or have I just been too bored today and need to go throw discs around?
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby seabas22 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:33 pm

Lol...just go throw some discs in a field. It's generally easier to aim a disc on an angle because it has a larger margin of error on timing and will still go the direction you want. Aiming flat is harder because if you are a little early or late on release and the disc can go further right or left. It's this timing margin of error on releasing on an angle that is often more forgiving than introducing an extra flight angle unless you are talking about monster headwinds. As for hyzer-flipping, its a pretty predictable shot provided you are throwing something in your power(snap) range or for the shot. Slower discs are generally more accurate and consistent than high speed drivers. I find TLs and Eagle-Ls to be very predictable hyzer-flip discs, but it may vary for you so field test your discs and find what works for you.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby kern9787 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:01 pm

seabas22 wrote:Lol...just go throw some discs in a field. It's generally easier to aim a disc on an angle because it has a larger margin of error on timing and will still go the direction you want. Aiming flat is harder because if you are a little early or late on release and the disc can go further right or left. It's this timing margin of error on releasing on an angle that is often more forgiving than introducing an extra flight angle unless you are talking about monster headwinds. As for hyzer-flipping, its a pretty predictable shot provided you are throwing something in your power(snap) range or for the shot. Slower discs are generally more accurate and consistent than high speed drivers. I find TLs and Eagle-Ls to be very predictable hyzer-flip discs, but it may vary for you so field test your discs and find what works for you.


You're misunderstanding. I don't have any problems with the shot. I use it a majority of the time. I just noticed (I think) a phenomena associated with it and was hoping for a physics-ish explanation of it.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby keltik » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:08 pm

something something airspeed velocity something something parting line height something something rate of spin versus airspeed velocity something something gyroscopic effect.

hope that helps.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby MDP » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:13 pm

This is not exactly a technical explanation:

It seems that most discs with low fade are also fairly understable. It is the rare disc that has both a lot of high speed stability and only a small fade.

Hyzer-flipping is a way to make understable discs fly straight for the high speed portion of the flight, while also taking advantage of its low fade to get flights as close to straight as possible.

This probably doesn't quite answer your question since you seem to be asking about a hyzer-flip that sort of locks into flat. The speed requirement probably also has something to do with it. The discs that are going to fly straight during the HS portion of the flight will most likely require a lot of power to get them straight so the margin for error seems smaller.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby seabas22 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:52 pm

kern9787 wrote:You're misunderstanding. I don't have any problems with the shot. I use it a majority of the time. I just noticed (I think) a phenomena associated with it and was hoping for a physics-ish explanation of it.

Alrighty then, I guess I don't no whut u b axing yo cuz your first question asked, "is it just a matter of learning the throw?" I thought you wanted to know why a hyzer-flip is a preferable shot over flat, which is a throwing mechanics reason more than a physics reason. I doubt throwing in field will help you understand physics though.

If you are asking about the physics of flying discs, here:
http://www.uwec.edu/physics/stecher/gfdpp/gentle.htm
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby brianc » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:17 am

MDP wrote:...It seems that most discs with low fade are also fairly understable. It is the rare disc that has both a lot of high speed stability and only a small fade.

Hyzer-flipping is a way to make understable discs fly straight for the high speed portion of the flight, while also taking advantage of its low fade to get flights as close to straight as possible....


Aha. Very interesting. I play with this guy who hyzer flips his leopard all day long on our short coures and I figured he was just compensating for a bad release angle by using an understable disc, but maybe he's just way ahead of me. He's pretty accurate with it.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby jubuttib » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:08 am

MDP wrote:It seems that most discs with low fade are also fairly understable. It is the rare disc that has both a lot of high speed stability and only a small fade.

Hyzer-flipping is a way to make understable discs fly straight for the high speed portion of the flight, while also taking advantage of its low fade to get flights as close to straight as possible.
Basically disc. Additionally, according to JHern it takes equal amount of work to turn a disc flat from a 5 degree hyzer as it takes to turn a disc over 5 degrees from flat (all else being equal), so there really shouldn't be a "lock into straight" effect as such.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby kern9787 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:20 pm

jubuttib wrote:
MDP wrote:It seems that most discs with low fade are also fairly understable. It is the rare disc that has both a lot of high speed stability and only a small fade.

Hyzer-flipping is a way to make understable discs fly straight for the high speed portion of the flight, while also taking advantage of its low fade to get flights as close to straight as possible.
Basically disc. Additionally, according to JHern it takes equal amount of work to turn a disc flat from a 5 degree hyzer as it takes to turn a disc over 5 degrees from flat (all else being equal), so there really shouldn't be a "lock into straight" effect as such.


That is really what I was looking for answers for. Like I said, I have a much easier time throwing straight on a hyzer flip. I didn't know if there would be any such effect on the disc that would try to hold it flat, or if it was just a matter of muscle memory. I suppose it is simply the latter. It just seems odd that I find that most consistent for me, as it is relying on more variables that, I would have imagined would have caused LESS consistency.
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Re: Hyzer-flipping

Postby JHern » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:30 pm

seabas22 wrote:...It's generally easier to aim a disc on an angle because it has a larger margin of error on timing and will still go the direction you want. Aiming flat is harder because if you are a little early or late on release and the disc can go further right or left...


jubuttib wrote:
MDP wrote:It seems that most discs with low fade are also fairly understable. It is the rare disc that has both a lot of high speed stability and only a small fade.

Hyzer-flipping is a way to make understable discs fly straight for the high speed portion of the flight, while also taking advantage of its low fade to get flights as close to straight as possible.
Basically disc. Additionally, according to JHern it takes equal amount of work to turn a disc flat from a 5 degree hyzer as it takes to turn a disc over 5 degrees from flat (all else being equal), so there really shouldn't be a "lock into straight" effect as such.


^^^^ I agree with everything above.

I'm a big fan of shaping lines with under-stable plastic, its one of the funnest parts of the game. Kenny Climo nails his lines flipping over Rocs in different stages of wear. It's fun watching Eric McCabe hyzer-flip a Buzzz, and he puts tons of spin on it to keep it more stable. The current Masters World Champ Jon Baldwin tears it up with an Avenger SS, he gets the disc to flip up to just the right angle, whether it be not quite flat holding a little hyzer, purely flat, or turned over a bit past flat. There are a lot of benefits...You can throw a much longer hyzer shot (hyzer flip that doesn't get quite flat) with under-stable plastic than with stable plastic...You can throw a hyzer flip to flat that finishes straight with understable plastic...etc.. And most importantly, you can do all this without wearing out your arm!
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