what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain later

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain later

Postby brianc » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:32 pm

Hey everyone. First post here. So, I've played DG off and on for a few years and never got serious about it until some guy at the local course asked me to join a weekly league. So now I'm practicing and reading up all I can here and it's a whole new world of disc golf possibilities.

Anyway so a friday after work I went down into the retention pond behind my house for some RHBH throwing practice with my roc. Trying to get the right technique for more D and I made a change, trying for a full reachback while attempting to wait as long as possible to start pulling the disc. This seemed to force me to use my hips, core, and back for power. I did this twice, heard a nice new whooosh, got a bit of additional D, and possibly more snap, since the disc seemed to fly in a slight of an s-curve, though I probably released it too nose up because it went kind of high. The only problem, both times, and this never happened previously, I felt a pop in my throwing shoulder about when my arm was facing the target I guess. It didn't hurt, or didn't hurt much, but after the second time, I figured I'd call it quits for the session. It didn't seem like proper form would do that.

That night and the next day I started to have pain in the shoulder during certain movements, like pulling your hands above/behind your head for a morning stretch. It's 3 days later and the pain is just now gone.

Has anyone experienced this before. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong to result in this kind of popping sensation? I don't have poppy shoulders in general and I don't want to mess them up either.

Thanks in advance. This is a great game and a great site here.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby JR » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:39 am

Welcome and sorry to hear about your problems. I've read that some here have popped the shoulder. Were you warmed up and had you stretched? Shoulder warm ups are necessary at higher power levels and for those, who have not been accustomed to throwing. Rotating straight arms as close to the spine as you can in pre throwing exercise helps. Slapping the hands together in front of the body and then behind your back also helps.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby brianc » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:34 pm

Thanks JR. I had not stretched, but I was definitely warm as I had been throwing for about a half hour and was working up a sweat from throwing and then trekking to my disc. I'm sure my shoulder was not dislocated, since there wasn't much initial pain, but something in there must have gotten hung up in an unnatural way.

I have league tonight and I will do the stretches you mentioned and probably play lefty and right hand forehand just to give it more time to get back to 100%. I had been throwing frequently in the past few weeks, so to that degree I was accustomed to throwing. Then again, I may be on the verge of a new power level (I sure hope so). I'm looking forward to getting some video at some point as I am still pretty much a beginner compared to where I want to get to and most of the people here.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby JR » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:00 am

Unless you're used to slapshots or backhand hitting in tennis or racquetball the throwing motion is fairly unfamiliar territory and small muscles get a workout that is unfamiliar. Many people don't realize how tearing the throwing motion is. Tearing to muscles and tendons. Age plays a part too. Middle aged persons and older get tendon trouble from office work so introducing an athletic motion that the small muscles aren't conditioned to is potentially dangerous. Taking it easy should help some. Half an hour of throwing may well not be enough to warm up.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby Jaysus » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:04 am

brianc> how old are you?
Jaysus
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: H'burg, PA

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby brianc » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:38 am

JR wrote:Unless you're used to slapshots or backhand hitting in tennis or racquetball the throwing motion is fairly unfamiliar territory and small muscles get a workout that is unfamiliar. Many people don't realize how tearing the throwing motion is. Tearing to muscles and tendons. Age plays a part too. Middle aged persons and older get tendon trouble from office work so introducing an athletic motion that the small muscles aren't conditioned to is potentially dangerous. Taking it easy should help some. Half an hour of throwing may well not be enough to warm up.


Jaysus wrote:brianc> how old are you?


I'm 35 and I have had a desk job for at least the last 10 years.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby brianc » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:26 pm

Something else I just realized is that on the throws that caused the problem, my follow through had my right arm kind of high (at least shoulder high) as opposed to MB's in the right pec drill video where he follows through lower. I remember reading recently someone said to rotate your thumb down on the follow through and I think when I do that it forces me to follow through lower with my right arm, which I think would have prevented this shoulder snag.

I think I'm going to start over from scratch with my drive. Just do some right pec drills for a while and slowly add steps and reach back per the advice on this forum. That should get me to a safe form as well as help with my upshot accuracy.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby Jaysus » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:35 am

brianc wrote:
Jaysus wrote:brianc> how old are you?

I'm 35 and I have had a desk job for at least the last 10 years.


me too... my shoulder has been popping similarly for nearly 4 years now :(

I manage by, limiting my over hand and high-power forehand throws and taking a few weeks off every now and then. It sucks, but I just deal with it.
Jaysus
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: H'burg, PA

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby brianc » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:19 am

Jaysus wrote:me too... my shoulder has been popping similarly for nearly 4 years now :(

I manage by, limiting my over hand and high-power forehand throws and taking a few weeks off every now and then. It sucks, but I just deal with it.

So you get trouble from forehand and I'm getting trouble from my backhand.

Bummer though, that doesn't bode well for finding a solution, but I'll let you know if I do. I'm still not at 100%. I'm thinking, take it easy somewhat for now, stretch, rotator cuff exercises, pull ups, barbell over head press, and get a consistent (lower) follow through down.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby Mark Ellis » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:17 pm

Injuries are weird and unique to themselves. People walk away from serious car crashes unscathed and then become disabled from walking down the street.

Not being a doctor but injured frequently, I take a practical approach. You must learn YOUR body and its limitations. Once injured, if mild, treat it and get back on the field asap. Ice and stretching are key. If severe, get medical help and be willing to more slowly rehab it. The trick is knowing how bad the injury is to determine how aggressive you rehab. Fortunately our own instincts are pretty good at judging how bad the injury is.

An injury can advance your game if you do the right things. Brianc is blowing out his shoulder when he over-torques on shots. So as he rebuilds the shoulder he should practice smooth, controlled drives at diminished power levels. If we assume that a normal hard drive is around 90% of maximum power then dialing back to 75% will produce some good results and much less strain on your body. If 75% is more than he can tolerate then dial back til he finds an acceptable level and build from there.

At lesser power it is easier to hit a line.
At lesser power it is easier to throw it flat.
At lesser power it is easier to remain in balance.
At lesser power it is easier to throw the right height.

So by dialing back on power you are more likely to throw effective shots, a good lesson for when you recover and can ramp back up the power.

Throwing at less than maximum power also teaches touch. Many players like to practice by throwing as far as they can. But in a round of golf the majority of shots is taken at less than maximum power.

Throwing smooth and fluid and flat diminishes flutter allowing the disc to glide farther on less effort. A major difference between good golfers and duffers is the ability to throw flat and straight.

So use your rehab period wisely and maybe the injury will be the best thing to happen to your game.
Mark Ellis
The Big Fundamental
User avatar
 
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:32 pm
Location: Brighton, Michigan
Favorite Disc: Rattler

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby brianc » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:45 pm

Mark Ellis wrote:Injuries are weird and unique to themselves. People walk away from serious car crashes unscathed and then become disabled from walking down the street.

Not being a doctor but injured frequently, I take a practical approach. You must learn YOUR body and its limitations. Once injured, if mild, treat it and get back on the field asap. Ice and stretching are key. If severe, get medical help and be willing to more slowly rehab it. The trick is knowing how bad the injury is to determine how aggressive you rehab. Fortunately our own instincts are pretty good at judging how bad the injury is.

An injury can advance your game if you do the right things. Brianc is blowing out his shoulder when he over-torques on shots. So as he rebuilds the shoulder he should practice smooth, controlled drives at diminished power levels. If we assume that a normal hard drive is around 90% of maximum power then dialing back to 75% will produce some good results and much less strain on your body. If 75% is more than he can tolerate then dial back til he finds an acceptable level and build from there.

At lesser power it is easier to hit a line.
At lesser power it is easier to throw it flat.
At lesser power it is easier to remain in balance.
At lesser power it is easier to throw the right height.

So by dialing back on power you are more likely to throw effective shots, a good lesson for when you recover and can ramp back up the power.

Throwing at less than maximum power also teaches touch. Many players like to practice by throwing as far as they can. But in a round of golf the majority of shots is taken at less than maximum power.

Throwing smooth and fluid and flat diminishes flutter allowing the disc to glide farther on less effort. A major difference between good golfers and duffers is the ability to throw flat and straight.

So use your rehab period wisely and maybe the injury will be the best thing to happen to your game.


Very good points Mark. I've got an appointment with a shoulder specialist in about a week, so I'll let you all know the verdict, but since I still have pain, I'm thinking it will take a good amount of rest time and rehab.

Light discs would probably also help eventually since all of mine are heavy discs that I bought at walgreens before I knew any better and it's usually calm where I play anyway.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby brianc » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:51 pm

OK, the results are in: rotator cuff tendonitis, which seems to be a favorable diagnosis in that things are only inflamed and irritated and not broken or torn. The doc explained that repetitive rubbing of the leathery cuff tendons against the acromion can cause a blister-like formation which will only cause more rubbing and inflammation, hence the rest called for.

Additionally strengthening the rotator cuff muscles will keep the cuff in place more during rotations and prevent some of the rubbing which causes the problem.

For someone under 30 who does the recommended treatment, recovery should take 2-4 weeks. It can take months though, and as we've discussed, I'm not under 30. At least it happened in the fall and not the spring.

Prescription seems to be anti-inflammatory drugs like advil and aleve in the short term.
No disc golf at least until the pain is gone, unless I become a lefty (which I'll probably try while I heal)
Try a lower pull line.
Strengthen rotator cuff muscles.

I hope that helps someone.
brianc
Noob
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs
Favorite Disc: wraith roc aviar

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby JR » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:44 pm

Tendon inflammations due to repetitive stress and the shaking of the muscles is common in disc golf. Especially during the early years in a career and bulking up the muscles and doing field practice will help over time. Since you don't have that much recent athletic background, if i understood correctly, and are in the age, where tendon trouble starts from age alone, you are in a higher chance of getting trouble. That is why is suggest not pushing through pain, while throwing, but stopping to throw at the first sign of stress for at least the first half year after you've healed. And not pushing that hard afterward. I have a really lopsided training time in field practice vs rounds in favor of field practice. And it grows my distance in a very slow pace :-( Dunno what's possible at our age. I've run across a barrier i'm afraid in wrist motion stopping strength and the lack of at least thumb and possibly index finger pinch strength. Training those really stresses tendons so i'd recover fully if i were you and first started with weight lifting to strengthen the muscles first to allow the tendons a slow build up to avoid new inflammations.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: what am I doing wrong to cause my shoulder to pop pain l

Postby Aubin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:11 am

Welcome to starting disc golf in your mid-30's.

I'm in the same boat. I'm in pretty good shape and have always been athletic and active, but less so in the 3-5 years before DG (kids will do that to ya.) When I started getting serious about throwing and learning better form, parts of my body tore and popped that i didn't know existed. It's a very unnatural motion and takes a long time to build up those stressed out support points, rotation points, and smaller muscle groups.

My suggestions would be to learn several stretches and warm ups, and do them religiously before playing. The first cold throw is the one that gets ya. If you want to take DG further and do competitive events beyond leagues (2+ rounds a day, practice every day, etc) then you'll need to do some basic shoulder and core exercises to get yourself in shape for it. Nothing major, but pushups, dips, pull ups, etc just to get the upper body working. Also concentrate on your back and core muscles, back injuries are very common to guys like us. And let's not get started on knees...

TL;DR: you can't hop out of your car and shoot a hot round like a 19 year old; if you are in your 30's and want to improve you'll need to do some sort of basic workouts and stretches.
ChallengerMagnetCometTeebirdsDestroyersPredator
Aubin
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 7:59 am
Location: Milford, CT
Favorite Disc: APX


Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest