Wrist Roll???

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Wrist Roll???

Postby Pagan » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:35 pm

Ok I'm still kinda new to disc golf. I've found that I have to throw very overstable plastic just to get a drive to finish slightly left. I know that I do not yet have the power to throw these discs fast enough to cause them to fly understable. I've noticed they tend to turn right, hard. I've been working to resolve this. After some experiementation I have reached the conclusion I am gripping incorrectly. I played three rounds of 18 holes today working specifically on my grips. I really want to get this resolved so my distance can increase. I KNOW the power is there, because on occasion I'll get my drives way right and at least 50 feet longer than normal.

My question is this; Am I getting wrist roll? If that is indeed the trouble, how do I resolve it. I've seen several mentions of this before, but I am unclear. Please indulge me and dumb it down a bit...

Thanks In Advance
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Postby adidadg » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:58 am

do you find that the disc is heading right almost directly out of your hand? If so then wrist roll is the most likely culprit. In case you are not totally sure, wrist roll means that as you pull through on your throw, you are rotating your forearm/wrist to face up and hence putting anhyzer on the disc, causing it to go right. It can be tricky to fix, its just a matter of good practice to get it out of your system. Just be conscious of it, and try to keep your palm facing somewhat towards you (and not facing up, or down for that matter) as you release the disc and follow through.

Arching your back as you pull through, grip-lock, and/or raising your right shoulder can also cause you drives to head off right ( i am assuming you are a right-handed backhand thrower), so you can watch out for that too.

do you find this happens with all of your drivers or just some in particular?

does any of this help?
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Postby sleepy » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:14 pm

Thanks for posting this Pagan! I too suffer from wrist roll, and will be following this thread closely.

Many of my drives do head off to the right immediately, like adidadg said, even when I line up and begin my x-step with about 70 degrees of hyzer on the disc. I just recently noticed this, and am thinking wrist roll is the culprit. I have a tendency to grip-lock discs as well, but recently I can feel my wrist/hand rolling over during my pull-through/release, with my palm facing skyward after the throw.

Pagan, do you actually feel your wrist roll?


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Postby Thatdirtykid » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:55 pm

Ive had problems with wrist roll and I solved most of them by learning knife hyzers, and then slowly taking the hyzer off until I could throw nearly flat much smoother than before.

I believe it was blake who suggested throwing alot of rollers (which many people intentinoally roll their wrists doing) and then working back toward throwing hyzers from there.

Im sure theres much better advise to be said...
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Postby adidadg » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:56 pm

Alot of players do not even realize they are doing it (myself included until i fixed it). If you are not sure, get someone to watch your throw...
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Postby presidio hills » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:42 pm

the thing that's helped me learn my wrist behavior recently is throwing discs that force me to throw without a wrist roll. when i throw a roc my wrist must roll "flat" (not over or under... i'll just call it flat) in order to fly correctly. i suggest throwing putters and straight flying midranges in a practice session and throwing 'em nice and easy and flat. catch with a putter is always good, too.
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Postby garublador » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:11 pm

I think one of the most useful and possibly underutalized sections of this site is the "Techniuqe Repair" section. I'd recommend going there and reading it. I found it to be extremely helpful.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:57 pm

a guy in my group recently seemed to throw with a wrist roll. It worked fine for him until we were faced with a headwind. I teed and threw a decent drive with my z avenger, it was about 30 ft short of a 380' uphill. Then he stepped up and turned over an extreme :shock: it fought back hard after turning about 50' to the right, which wasnt enough to avoid ob.
He insisted it was he threw really hard (although his drive went about 30' short of mine and was ob).
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Postby didihitatree » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:32 pm

Yeah, make sure that wrist roll is the problem first. Sometimes you just hang on to the disc too long or you open up your shoulders too soon. You need to try and figure out whether it's a matter of bad aim or a matter off spin/angle off the disc. It could be both.

Does the plastic come out of your hands right then fade back to the left? Or does it come out right and then hook even harder to the right?

Wrist roll can be caused by grip. At one point I started rolling my wrist over and I looked at how I was gripping the frisbee. I had too much of my hand underneath the disc so my palm was starting off really close to facing up. It was therefore very easy to roll it over. Make sure the base/meaty part of the thumb is over the top of the disc. Check out the article on grip to see the example.

What I did was slightly exagerate that grip to get a little more of my hand over the disc. If your hand is pretty much over/on top of the disc, it's harder to roll over and if you do, you'll know it. I threw about 10 shots in a row medium/ medium hard and sort of got the feel. Then I went back to the proper grip and the problem went away.
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Postby Pagan » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 pm

Wow, quite a response! Glad I posted this.
First and foremost: Thanks for the responses!

Now moving on: When I throw it does IMMEDIATELY turn right and keep on going right hard. I have to throw Predators, Xtra, and Reapers just to get em to turn back or fade left. Today I paid closer attention to how I gripped the disc and released it. After some work I've changed my grip a bit by moving my first finger up a bit and letting the rim of the disc rest in the crease of the first knuckle. I was surprised how much this changes the angle of the disc! I still need to jave someone with some experience watch me throw and give some advice. I've posted a couple of pictures of my old grip and grip I used today. Please offer advice. and explain how i can make sure I'm not rolling my wrist.

Here's my old grip...
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Here's the grip used today.
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Postby adidadg » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:23 am

you said it goes right immediately after it comes out of your hand...does it do it with an anhyzer angle or a hyzer angle? If its an anhyzer angle then it is likely that you are either rolling your wrist or throwing with too much anhyzer to begin with (by the looks of your old grip you were throwing with a LOT of anhyzer). If it is coming out at a hyzer angle, then you might be grip-locking it, or opening your shoulders too early in your rotation. its hard to tell but it looks like your thumb might be out too far, it might help you to move it more into the middle of the disc, this will help maintain the disc's angle as you pull through and will be less prone to anhyzers. I really found Blake's grip article to be helpful, especially the points he makes about disc orientation, it may help you out too.

But rolling your wrist really has little to do with your grip. It has to do with maintaining the discs angle for the duration of your pull through. For a straight/hyzer shot, try to keep the disc at the same angle from your reachback all the way through to when it rips out of your hand. If that angle changes it most likely means you are rolling your wrist (either over or under). I get the feeling you are a little unclear on the whole wrist roll thing, let me know if it makes sense.
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Postby didihitatree » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:46 pm

This is just my opinion, but I think the grip is making a difference although not necessarily because of wrist roll.

The disc is like a wing. The less of the disc you show to the air/wind (ie. parallel to the ground) the less air resistance there is against the disc. So when disc golfers play in heavy head winds, they throw big right turning discs to fight the air resistance. Otherwise the wind carries the disc left.

By showing that much of the bottom side of the disc to the air, you are increasing air resistance. It's almost like you are throwing into the wind with every throw. )And on a side note, when you start off with that much of a tilt, it doesn't take much change along the wrist pivot point for a head up tilt to become a severe right-left tilt.)

So do your toss in slow motion. At the point of release your disc should be either flat or possibly slighlty nose down. And it should have no left/right angle either. In other words, it should be parallel to the ground.

In the second pic, that angle tilt is gone. So I would say forget about the wrist roll for now, and work on throwing with the grip in the second pic. It may very well make your right fade go away. But even if it doesn't, it's still the right way to throw for distance and accuracy.
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Postby Pagan » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:55 am

It seems the disc is leaving my hard with anhyzer. Am hoping to get some video of my throws so I can look more closely. Seems that my problem is more with release angles than wrist rolls. I will however pay more attention to my throws and use the information provided. Will post follow up later as I'm off Sunday.

Much Appreciated.
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Postby Pagan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:49 pm

Figured I would post a follow up... I spent some time yesterday paying extra attention to my releases. On several holes I noticed that the disc is "hanging" on my pinkie finger as I release it. I typically grip the disc with my fingertips curled up and pressing firmly against the inside rim of the disc. I distinctly felt the disc catch on my pinky tip and saw the angle skew to anhyser. So I have to refine my grip more to insure that it's released flat, and get a clean release. The disadvantages to playing alone most of the time strike again...

Hoping this helps someone else in future too.
Going to re-read the grip article again...

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Postby sleepy » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:08 pm

Pagan,

I too was having a tough time with the traditional power grip because I have small hands, and noticed that my pinkie just never felt comfortable on the rim, especially when I tried to grip the disc as suggested in the Grip It To Rip It article...at or above the crease of my palm.

Anyway, I have found some success in using a modified power grip with only my index, middle and ring fingers on the rim and my pinky curled into my palm outside the disc. This also allows me to get more of the base of my thumb on top of the disc. Give it a shot! :)


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