flattening a disc

[veganray]

I'm gonna go home and give all my super slick aviars a quick rubdown with some superfine sand paper to help me grip them.

Just make sure to chant "super slickness is a molding imperfection" while you sand, and don't do it excessively.

This rule does not forbid…the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded…are illegal.

[Frank Delicious]

I'm sanding out scrape marks (that I made with the rougher sandpaper).

[superdrive]

''less-than-fluent in written English''

Engrish is mi 3rd bestest language.

You are right. It's illegal to flatten discs, or fix warped rim etc. Funny rules are funny.

PS. sun did it.

[JR]

Climo uses sun treatment a lot.

[money 21]

lots of pros spray stickum on there discs.

[warobert]

JR brings up a good point. Is it illegal to use a wizard i left in my backseat during the summer heat that went from domey to sunken top? I definitely changed the flight characteristics but I didn't actually do anything to it; it just sat there in my car all afternoon waiting on me to get off of work.

[veganray]

lots of pros spray stickum on there discs.

Question: Is it legal to use stuff on one's hands in order to obtain a better grip on the disc?

Response: Applicable Rules: 802.01 Disc Used in Play, 802.04 Artificial Devices

Many players have long used substances in order to obtain a better grip. Some examples of grip additives/grip aids are: dirt, juice from oranges, rosin bags, birdie bags, talc, sawdust, gorilla grip, pine tar, firm grip, Pow'r-tac, etc. Some are marketed specifically for disc golf and some are marketed for other sports.

Conclusion: The PDGA Rules Committee has discussed these issues. We also solicited the input of the PDGA Technical Standards Committee Chairman. It is our opinion that the use of grip aids is generally acceptable since nothing in the rules specifically prohibits their use.

Other comments: We believe that anything that can help a player secure a better grip would lead to safer play, particularly since we often play in conditions that are cold and/or wet. The rules of most sports allow for grip additives (golf, tennis, basketball, bowling and baseball, for example), thus we see them as a generally accepted part of competitive sports.

The only problem that we foresee is if the substance used ( as with the grippier additives like pine tar or Pow'r-tac, etc.) winds up adding thickness or weight to the disc (generally through repeated use and build up, both of the additive and other substances which might stick to the additives). Of course, the player can manage this by periodically cleaning off the discs when build up appears. If a competitor thinks that additives are adding weight and thus affecting the legality of the disc, that player has the right to have the TD inspect the disc and make the final determination of the legality of the disc in question.

[veganray]

JR brings up a good point. Is it illegal to use a wizard i left in my backseat during the summer heat that went from domey to sunken top? I definitely changed the flight characteristics but I didn't actually do anything to it; it just sat there in my car all afternoon waiting on me to get off of work.

Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics.

Full circle: this is where honor & good character come in. If you know in your heart of hearts that you did not "make" the post-production modification, the disc is legal. If you know that you left that disc in the car on purpose to cave it in (thereby "making" the post-production modification), but also know that you can deviously beg the "accident" defense to anybody who questions it, the disc is illegal.

[Flipflat]

Hi! This site has a very useful search function, next time before posting, please try using it. Using the search function may answer questions that have already been answered and discussed.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18135

The above thread is pretty much the same as this thread. Highlights of the above post include: a cat fight between veganray and Chuck Kennedy, and an appearance by Mark Ellis. ChUcK also makes a post (whatever happened to that guy?).

[Mark Ellis]

Hi! This site has a very useful search function, next time before posting, please try using it. Using the search function may answer questions that have already been answered and discussed.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18135

The above thread is pretty much the same as this thread. Highlights of the above post include: a cat fight between veganray and Chuck Kennedy, and an appearance by Mark Ellis. ChUcK also makes a post (whatever happened to that guy?).

I had forgotten how entertaining that discussion was. I seldom get drawn into extended discussions and rebuttals but that one was fun.

[archimedesjs]

This whole argument is ridiculous and stupid in my opinion. Disc molds for certain discs are so inconsistent, you never know what you're going to get. If you seek out the disc that has the imperfection that you're after, or make the imperfection yourself what difference does it make? Honestly, it's such a stupid rule to get anal about. If it's about honor, and integrity then the rule is irrelevant. The rules are simply guidelines to fairplay, not the path to moral living. If I sift through a bin of champion destroyers until I find one that has a flat enough dome to satisfy my needs, does that make me my disc more illegal than somebody who wasn't granted the same opportunity as me, who just created the enhancement/deformation that I had the opportunity to seek out? The burden should fall on the disc manufacturers themselves. There is no real basis for this kind of crap in disc golf, aside from purely illegal molds.

It's not like a baseball, that has a few stitchings scuffed up, or some vaseline applied to it. If every disc that you got of a specific mold WAS the same, this would be a non-issue, but that is not the case. When a pitcher is thrown a brand new baseball in the MLB, it's of a standard type. If a player were to receive, say a Champion Groove fresh off the line, every disc out of 10 would have a different flight path. If we were all just using one mold, then there would be a basis for this argument, but since we're not, it's just anally retentive asswipes making a bigger deal out if it than they should. Most of whom I wouldn't waste a squirt of piss on if they were on fire. Enough with the self-righteousness, start hammering on rules that are actually applicable to fair play.

[veganray]

Honestly, it's such a stupid rule…Enough with the self-righteousness, start hammering on rules that are actually applicable to fair play.

Methinks the self-righteous act is unilaterally deciding which rules are sufficiently "non-stupid" and "applicable to fair play" to deem worthy of self-enforcement.

[Frank Delicious]

If a player were to receive, say a Champion Groove fresh off the line, every disc out of 10 would have a different flight path. .

not a great example

[JHern]

This whole argument is ridiculous and stupid in my opinion. Disc molds for certain discs are so inconsistent, you never know what you're going to get.....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No doubt!

If the modified disc would pass PDGA standards, if it were submitted to testing as a mold/model in its own right, then what the heck is wrong with it? The kind of modifications we're talking about here anyways fall within the range of "natural" variations in every mold ever produced by every manufacturer. Some discs come out with more dome (because the rim shrunk more), and some discs come out flat (because the guy operating the machine was drunk). What if I put some crap on my bag in the trunk, and it caused a flattening of the dome? Should I never use that disc again in PDGA-sanctioned events?

IMVHO, manufacturers themselves tweak a lot of production discs after they get the prototypes approved, making versions of discs that would not pass PDGA standards and rules if submitted by themselves. Why isn't there such a moral outrage against that, as there is for the po-folk pouring hot water on their plastic?

[veganray]

IMVHO, manufacturers themselves tweak a lot of production discs after they get the prototypes approved, making versions of discs that would not pass PDGA standards and rules if submitted by themselves. Why isn't there such a moral outrage against that, as there is for the po-folk pouring hot water on their plastic?