Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

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Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby Pwingles » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:50 pm

Trying to develop my FH shot. Previously it was mostly to get out of trouble, and approaches. Ive been working on it lately and have changed my grip from a 1 finger (only on drivers, 2 finger everything else) to a 2 finger stack w/ my middle finger on the rim and index over the back of the middle finger. It took a few rounds to get used to but it feels right now, and i am experiencing some more distance then i previously was getting with a bit more accuracy when i have a solid throw.

My biggest hurdles are currently;

Footwork- atm, my approach is very slow, 1 step or a hop/x step, if not standing. I know im missing out on leverage and losing power here. I saw Woj's video and it helped a lil, maybe ill re watch, any other insight or help would be welcomed.

Hip/shoulder timing with my throw- I feel like this timing is off currently and its costing me D as well as accuracy and potentially teaching me bad habits w/ my form that still isnt that great for this shot.

Snap w/out OAT- atm, i am using preds, PD's, and occasionally Forces for FH shots off the tee. Im not sure if its a product of the LSS of these discs or my lack of snap, but on what i consider a fundamentally sound throw, ill get a slight turn, like a really tight S, and a penetrating fade and i can reliably throw to 225-250' and this is about 80 pct power. Any harder and my terrible form/bad footwork/OAT starts showing badly.

I would like some pointers on how you throw w/ power without wrist roll. I feel like the harder I try the worse the throw is, but I can only throw so far to this point with the "minimal effort is better" thing. And would like to throw farther more accurately.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby MDP » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:21 pm

Footwork: Did you play baseball at all? My run up (for distance) is basically a mini crow-hop (like an outfielder would use). I know some people use an x-step, so you could try that out. Footwork has a similar function in backhand: allow hips/shoulders to open, and to allow for the weight shift. Because your throwing arm is your trailing arm FH there's more variation in how to achieve this.

Timing: My advice would be to learn to be able to throw sidearm from a standstill. I can throw 300' FH with no run up and I'm a scrawny guy. This will force you to learn to weight shift and proper acceleration to be able to get the disc to go anywhere (similar to right-pec drill for BH).

OAT: It's so easy to OAT FH...I've been throwing FH for 2 years longer than BH and I still have days where I struggle with this. Keep your elbow close to your body and focus on getting your weight shifted so you're over your plant foot on release.

Power: You want your wrist to break, but not roll. Think about your grip. Is your palm facing up or forward or somewhere in between? I found more success with a grip that has my palm facing more forward (horizontal) than upward. This allows your wrist to break more naturally without rolling--try holding your hand out palm up then bending at the wrist back and forth: there's not much movement vs holding your hand palm forward.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby JR » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:42 pm

It's mostly about the wrist. jubuttib wrote, that for the players he taught the best working tip was from an Innova video, where Dave D said to stop the wrist (to allow the disc to pivot and gain spin thus having more stability and less wobble). Another thing is to shorten the arm motion and concentrating on whipping the wrist as fast as possible. Check out videos of Ville Piippo to see how short the arm motion can be for regular 430' and if needed well beyond that. Ville trains the core the most in physical training. He says to aim with the left side of the body. This means, that you can get the shoulder to shoulder line to align with the target, before the arm moves at all. The legs don't need an x step at all. The right leg can be left shorter than the left leg, where you'd have the x step in BH.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby NoLifeLeft » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:07 am

Roc Lover wrote:I feel like the harder I try the worse the throw is

I find that if I focus on generating power it yields a trashy throw for me generally. All of my best FH shots come from when I focus on my line and the power follows naturally.

Grip wise...
Most people get less power/more wobble with this:
Image
And a stronger cleaner throw with:
Image
Think of it like this, most of the muscle available in your hand is directed at pressing with your fingertips not moving your fingers laterally.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby CatPredator » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:29 am

Sounds like you need to read the incomplete secret technique thread again, work on the hammer pound drill, and then work on throwing standstill forehands with something like a Roc, Buzzz, or Teebird.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby Mark Ellis » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:50 am

Roc Lover wrote:Trying to develop my FH shot. Previously it was mostly to get out of trouble, and approaches. Ive been working on it lately and have changed my grip from a 1 finger (only on drivers, 2 finger everything else) to a 2 finger stack w/ my middle finger on the rim and index over the back of the middle finger. It took a few rounds to get used to but it feels right now, and i am experiencing some more distance then i previously was getting with a bit more accuracy when i have a solid throw.

My biggest hurdles are currently;

Footwork- atm, my approach is very slow, 1 step or a hop/x step, if not standing. I know im missing out on leverage and losing power here. I saw Woj's video and it helped a lil, maybe ill re watch, any other insight or help would be welcomed.

Hip/shoulder timing with my throw- I feel like this timing is off currently and its costing me D as well as accuracy and potentially teaching me bad habits w/ my form that still isnt that great for this shot.

Snap w/out OAT- atm, i am using preds, PD's, and occasionally Forces for FH shots off the tee. Im not sure if its a product of the LSS of these discs or my lack of snap, but on what i consider a fundamentally sound throw, ill get a slight turn, like a really tight S, and a penetrating fade and i can reliably throw to 225-250' and this is about 80 pct power. Any harder and my terrible form/bad footwork/OAT starts showing badly.

I would like some pointers on how you throw w/ power without wrist roll. I feel like the harder I try the worse the throw is, but I can only throw so far to this point with the "minimal effort is better" thing. And would like to throw farther more accurately.


It is hard to diagnose a problem over the internet (is it a heart attack or indigestion?) so your best solution is to find a good forehand coach. It sounds like your throw breaks down whenever you throw hard. This sounds like a problem of rolling your wrist over too soon-like a microsecond too soon.

Forehand shots, due to their small margin of error need a lot of practice. The good news is that bad form results in bad shots so you get immediate feedback whenever you screw it up.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby JR » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:34 am

Forearm flexibility training may help, if you get too stiff in the muscles early by placing finger print of the middle finger on the rim. Stacking the index finger toward the center of the disc, but on the middle finger. So i'd say that the lower image, that nolifeleft posted is better than the first, but not the best grip.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby MDP » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:12 pm

JR wrote:Forearm flexibility training may help, if you get too stiff in the muscles early by placing finger print of the middle finger on the rim. Stacking the index finger toward the center of the disc, but on the middle finger. So i'd say that the lower image, that nolifeleft posted is better than the first, but not the best grip.


Yeah, the problem with the first picture isn't that it only has one finger on the rim, but that the palm is oriented upward. If you can do the stack grip with the palm facing more forward the the pad of your finger on the rim, not the flight plate, it will work as well.

However, I'm not sure sure that a proper stack grip is necessarily better than the grip in the second picture. I know some people use it well (Avery Jenkins) and I'd guess hand size/shape plays a part.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby Pwingles » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:04 pm

thanks for the replies.

As far as the grip, its more like first pic, but my middle fingers pad is on the rim, not the side of the finger, basically the bottom pic w/ the fingers switched around. Ill try and post a pic to better show you.

A lot of what you guys have posted so far makes sense, like i said, i never really used my FH shot as a viable off the tee option unless it was a very specific situation. So the practice hasnt really been there and im basically starting new. So far i feel good about it.

My main goal would be to be able to fluidly switch back and forth with almost equal confidence (as im sure a lot of people would love to do). Basically if i could pretty accurately and consistently throw 325-350 on my FH I would be psyched.

Also confidence to throw this shot into HW's when necessary would be great, currently the lack of snap/spin in my throw wouldnt yield any reliable distance or accuracy when a HW is present.

Im wanting to really work hard on line shaping and being versatile w/ this shot. I have zero interest in being that guy who flexes everything with whatever uber overstable POS disc he has to throw to get his FH out there. Keep the pointers coming :)
Last edited by Pwingles on Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby Pwingles » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:12 pm

Image
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby MDP » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:24 pm

Roc Lover wrote:As far as the grip, its more like first pic, but my middle fingers pad is on the rim, not the side of the finger, basically the bottom pic w/ the fingers switched around. Ill try and post a pic to better show you.

This is basically what I was describing, and it's the grip I use as well. You could experiment with the 2nd picture grip. I've never been able to get it to work for me, but other people use it well.

To reduce OAT, you want to do some slow speed throws and focus on your wrist. The "steely-stop" of your arm everyone is talking about is going to cause your wrist to break forward and to prevent OAT it needs to break while remaining oriented the same way. Rolling it over or under is going to cause OAT or nose-up issues.

I'm guessing that when you try to throw harder your whole arm moves more and it's more difficult to keep your wrist on the same plane. That's what happens to me at least: I get baseball flashbacks and my form falls apart.

With practice you'll be amazed at how much distance you can generate without a run up. I've had multiple comments from other players about my stand still FH throws (probably due to the fact that I'm not a big guy).
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby JR » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:04 am

Roc Lover wrote:Image


This is the grip i use and the best FH thrower in the world uses. I'm not too experienced with FH, but personally i used the second picture grip of the previous post earlier and initially switching to the grip above, i had worse results. As my arm injury got better and i got less stiffness and more mobility in the arms, the above grip started to give me best results. So what works in the short term may be less than perfect in the long term. And people may have anatomical limits on some of the grips, that can be overcome with time and practice.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Help Working on Accurate FH Distance, help me FH'ers

Postby JR » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:04 am

Roc Lover wrote:Image


This is the grip i use and the best FH thrower in the world uses. I'm not too experienced with FH, but personally i used the second picture grip of the previous post earlier and initially switching to the grip above, i had worse results. As my arm injury got better and i got less stiffness and more mobility in the arms, the above grip started to give me best results. So what works in the short term may be less than perfect in the long term. And people may have anatomical limits on some of the grips, that can be overcome with time and practice.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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