Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby Wyno » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:01 pm

Ok, I don't want to be difficult but there there's something here I'm not getting:
x-out wrote:"I should be blasting my drivers with the distance i'm getting with my putters"
"my best throws with my P2's are 340ft, averaging 320-330ft"
"the distances i'm seeing (with my drivers) are 450-480ft sometimes a little more, but less than 500ft"
Does not compute.
Also, if you throw 320ft with putters and 450 with drivers you're already getting much more out of your drivers than your putters...
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:29 pm

Wyno wrote:Ok, I don't want to be difficult but there there's something here I'm not getting:
x-out wrote:"I should be blasting my drivers with the distance i'm getting with my putters"
"my best throws with my P2's are 340ft, averaging 320-330ft"
"the distances i'm seeing (with my drivers) are 450-480ft sometimes a little more, but less than 500ft"
Does not compute.
Also, if you throw 320ft with putters and 450 with drivers you're already getting much more out of your drivers than your putters...


i dont know what to tell ya?

real world scenarios:
1xxx rated players i've played with/against that have 500+ power. i can out throw them putter vs. putter. i usually out throw them mid vs. mid. generally on the tee it looks like this me=putter them=mid, me=mid them=fairway/driver. it would make sense that i could throw further with the distance driver, but that is where i get blown away.

distances i get doesn't really matter. exactly why i was hesitant to post any yardage. lets just say i was only getting 200ft with my putters or my internet D is off. the fact is i'm still unable to properly eject my drivers. i'm missing something when switching from putters&mids to drivers.
its a game of mistakes. whoever can make the least amount of mistakes wins.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby Wyno » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:17 pm

Basically, if you're throwing 50% farther with your drivers vs putters, you don't have a problem with your driver form. If your 1000 rated friend has a larger gap than that between putter and driver distance, then he is the outlier here, not you.
According to Blake, a normal gap is something like:
Distance Drivers: 100%
Fairway Drivers: 90%
Mids: 85%
Putters: 70%
I usually see even less of a gap. So... I don't really see what your problem is ;-) Is it just a different feeling?
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:31 pm

Wyno wrote:Basically, if you're throwing 50% farther with your drivers vs putters, you don't have a problem with your driver form. If your 1000 rated friend has a larger gap than that between putter and driver distance, then he is the outlier here, not you.
According to Blake, a normal gap is something like:
Distance Drivers: 100%
Fairway Drivers: 90%
Mids: 85%
Putters: 70%
I usually see even less of a gap. So... I don't really see what your problem is ;-) Is it just a different feeling?


there is a huge disparity between the feel of my putters vs. drivers. it still is a mystery as to why i can throw my most overstable (C-Line PD2...freaky beefy) disc as far as my furthest throws with any other disc. i fell that the logic is if i can throw my my overstable disc that far, i should be able to throw my neutral stuff further.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby JR » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:08 am

x-out where is your thumb with driver drives? What happens, when you move the thumb toward the center of the disc in quarter inch increments? How hard do you push down with the thumb? Does the flight plate flex down? Which disc in which plastic in new condition can you flex down with your regular throw?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby MrScoopa » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:29 pm

With anhyzers you have the assistance of gravity to help push the disc through the pivot. It falls into the pivot. That's why you find it easier to hit it then. I find on flat or hyzer throws its easier to look past the feeling and blow past it with raw "arm speed".
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:00 pm

JR wrote:x-out where is your thumb with driver drives? What happens, when you move the thumb toward the center of the disc in quarter inch increments? How hard do you push down with the thumb? Does the flight plate flex down? Which disc in which plastic in new condition can you flex down with your regular throw?


it is hard to describe the position of my thumb.

my thumb is most similar to this
Image

i'm not sure how hard i push down with my thumb. i guess i push hard enough to feel pressure from pinching my index and thumb, slightly warping the flight plate but not warping it severely.

i will have to look into exactly which plastics i can flex, but i would imagine star, pro, and dx. i'm not sure i can flex "all" champion blends.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:11 pm

MrScoopa wrote:With anhyzers you have the assistance of gravity to help push the disc through the pivot. It falls into the pivot. That's why you find it easier to hit it then. I find on flat or hyzer throws its easier to look past the feeling and blow past it with raw "arm speed".


this seems to make the most sense in my mind.

i'm not giving all of the credit to gravity, because it seems im able to control the pivot when in the turnover/roller position. i can pivot and fully pound the disc at almost any speed (half, full, etc.). it seems as if i loose the ability to do this once the disc is below the 10 o'clock position. with 9 o'clock being flat and 7 o'clock being extreme hyzer, i seem to loose the feel. any help here would be appreciated.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby JR » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:41 am

With slippery discs, especially in cold and wet weather and with dry skin, that thumb position could be a problem for micro slipping. With your power the thumb should push down hard or slips are a definite possibility. So i'd put the thumb further toward the center of the disc even for a diagnostic. That is, because it is easier to feel the disc with the thumb, when the thumb slips and slides on the flight plate for longer.

There is roughly a 40 MPH difference in one second free fall in a vacuum between a 90 degree hyzer and anhyzer so don''t count the gravity out. Because roughly 20 MPH resistance is encountered in the hyzer and roughly 20 MPH help in the anny. 40 MPH flying disc is gonna easily fly 200' with a flat throw. Of course you don't normally throw 90 degree throws, so the effect is lesser with regular throws.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:12 am

JR wrote:x-out where is your thumb with driver drives? What happens, when you move the thumb toward the center of the disc in quarter inch increments? How hard do you push down with the thumb? Does the flight plate flex down? Which disc in which plastic in new condition can you flex down with your regular throw?


i haven't had the opportunity to field test this, but my initial impressions are positive. just waggling and going through mock throws with my thumb further in seems to give me a pivot and pound more similar to my roller throws.

i'm not sure if i'm uncomfortable with the grip because it is new or because it my thumb is now too far in. i understand that anything new will take some time to learn, but my thumb position is exaggerated now.
its a game of mistakes. whoever can make the least amount of mistakes wins.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby JR » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:20 pm

At least for my surgically altered arm the forearm muscles get tenser, when i push the thumb far away from the edge of the disc. I've gained some muscle looseness over time with about 2" in from the outer edge and decent looseness with 3" in from the edge with the thumb. Hope you'll get better results with that change.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:31 pm

JR wrote:What happens, when you move the thumb toward the center of the disc in quarter inch increments?


Tested this out today.

RESULTS: A minor adjustment with my thumb position changed made quite a bit of difference. I had an instant jump in distance with mids and drivers. I was averaging an extra 40ft with mids and drivers. After every throw i could only manage to laugh because the distance was so explosive and easy to attain.

THOUGHTS: I haven't found a comfortable or consistent thumb position. The new positioning has messed with my timing a little, but with a few more sessions it'll be fixed. I'm excited to find my "normal" rhythm with this new grip.

SUMMARY: I'm sure there are other things wrong with my technique, but this little trick seems to have cured the "no pivot" issue i was experiencing with flat/hyzer releases, and it has MASSIVE potential for bigger increases in distance. I wasn't able to hit the discs cleanly and my timing was slightly off, but this is very exciting. I always thought my grip was pretty solid, but the smallest change (a 1/4" or less) has allowed me to fully pivot the disc in any position.

THANK YOU for the tip JR! I owe you big time.
its a game of mistakes. whoever can make the least amount of mistakes wins.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby JR » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:19 pm

RADICAL! Congratulations!
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby x-out » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:54 pm

this new found hit is making me think 550+ is possible. i'm very excited.
its a game of mistakes. whoever can make the least amount of mistakes wins.
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Re: Dialed in Putter Form BUT...

Postby JR » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Lets hope so :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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