how does temperature effect disc flight?

Disc Golf Talk

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby money 21 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:35 pm

how does temperature effect disc flight?
ringer, aero, breaker, glide, sabre, valk, avenger, flick, helios, teedevil, halo
i have seen monkey sh!t fights at the zoo more orginized then this.
money 21
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:18 pm
Favorite Disc: Z XS

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby Dag » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:12 am

Shivering messes with my aim and sweat plays hell with a clean release...

There was a thread on this mebbe last winter.
...there was a time when you were taught to find the best disc for you, not the best disc for your situation on the course, which is how they are sold now. IMO, the flight charts are basically there to point out all the stuff you dont have in your bag and why you suck.

Chase Roberts
Dag
Tree Magnet
User avatar
 
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:55 am
Favorite Disc: Discworld

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby inthedrift » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:22 am

I think there was a thread...

My experience is that my discs do not seem to glide as well in really cold temperatures, although stability seems to be relatively unaffected. It's always an adjustment once the snow is on the ground for those of us who brave the winter to continue playing. I'm going through that adjustment presently as we now have several inches of snow on the ground. The questionable footing messes with my timing a lot, it'll take a few weeks before I'm feeling the winter groove
inthedrift
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 687
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:42 am
Location: Anchorage, AK
Favorite Disc: Firebird

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby swel304 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:51 am

Air density is up so more drag/less glide which can hurt distance and make the disc seem to fly more overstable. Or at least this is what I seem to remember people saying all the other winters that this topic has come up.
Wizard-Buzz-PolarisLS-Valkyrie-Wraith-BlizzKatana

http://www.XTREMEairbrush.com
swel304
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:31 am
Favorite Disc: X Buzzz

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby JHern » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:20 pm

Air density affects disc flight. All forces on the disc scale with density times the square of air speed. If density drops, as it does when hot and humid, or at high elevations, then you have to throw the disc faster to get the same forces (lift, drag, & turn).

I just threw discs in Salt Lake City this past week (4500' elevation, ~40˚F) as well as at home (sea level, ~70˚F). While the cooler air will increase density, the higher elevation decreases density...elevation was the stronger effect, and the over all density was lower.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
JHern
Please ask me about my insider info on pros! Oh GOD please ask me!
User avatar
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:50 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Favorite Disc: Clutch

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby ashley » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:15 pm

JHern wrote:Air density affects disc flight. All forces on the disc scale with density times the square of air speed. If density drops, as it does when hot and humid, or at high elevations, then you have to throw the disc faster to get the same forces (lift, drag, & turn).

I just threw discs in Salt Lake City this past week (4500' elevation, ~40˚F) as well as at home (sea level, ~70˚F). While the cooler air will increase density, the higher elevation decreases density...elevation was the stronger effect, and the over all density was lower.


I have read this several times, and I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying you threw farther at 4500/40 or at sea level/70?
ashley
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:13 pm
Favorite Disc: valkyrie

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby swel304 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:41 am

ashley wrote:
JHern wrote:Air density affects disc flight. All forces on the disc scale with density times the square of air speed. If density drops, as it does when hot and humid, or at high elevations, then you have to throw the disc faster to get the same forces (lift, drag, & turn).

I just threw discs in Salt Lake City this past week (4500' elevation, ~40˚F) as well as at home (sea level, ~70˚F). While the cooler air will increase density, the higher elevation decreases density...elevation was the stronger effect, and the over all density was lower.


I have read this several times, and I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying you threw farther at 4500/40 or at sea level/70?


I am pretty sure he is saying that even with the 40 degree temp the high elevation still caused the density to be lower than sea level@70degrees. i.e. it was easier to throw for distance in the higher elevation.

Science aside I personally believe that the distance people loose during the winter is more to do with stiff joints, cold hands, and additional clothing bulk. The less you wear the stiffer you get from cold, the more you wear the harder it is to move. When its really cold I start out bulky and remove layers when I feel close to breaking a sweat. When I warm up like this the cold air density only seems to take a minimal amount off my max D drives, like maybe 5-10 feet. With the bulky clothes on or cold muscles it takes more like 50+feet off. I have nothing to back this up other than my own experiences but it has always seemed to be a fairly consistent measure for my own cold weather game.
Wizard-Buzz-PolarisLS-Valkyrie-Wraith-BlizzKatana

http://www.XTREMEairbrush.com
swel304
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:31 am
Favorite Disc: X Buzzz

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby mark12b » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:18 am

ashley wrote:I have read this several times, and I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying you threw farther at 4500/40 or at sea level/70?

Depends on how you throw. Thick, heavy air like you get at sea level or when it's cold will be better for hyper flips, whereas if you're in thin air the disc will fly better with a more direct line. I live at sea level and when I throw in thinner air, the distance is pretty much the same, but I have a harder time shaping lines.
mark12b
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby kern9787 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:34 am

Simplified version:

Colder air = denser air

Significant rise in elevation above sea level = significantly less dense air

Denser air = more drag = more lift (glide) and more high speed turn

Less dense air = less drage = less lift, less turn, but faster.

So in more dense air (colder, or lower elevation) shots will be slower, but have more glide and fly less stable. In less dense air, shots are faster, but with less glide and more high speed stability. Two different kinds of shots are favored, but one isn't necessarily longer than the other.
P2 - Fuse - ROCS!!! - QJLS - QPLS - QOLS - PD - Predator - Quasar
kern9787
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Abilene, Tx

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby Sean40474 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:26 pm

I'm glad we got folks like you around JHern, I didn't pay much attention in physics lol.....too much higher level math. I was fine till I got to trig and calc.
It's all about discipline and focused practice!

masterbeato wrote:...900 feet, everybody is happy.
Sean40474
Colonel Cleavage
User avatar
 
Posts: 874
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: North Alabama
Favorite Disc: PDGazelle/Comet/Pure

Re: how does temperature effect disc flight?

Postby JHern » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:54 am

Sean40474 wrote:I'm glad we got folks like you around JHern, I didn't pay much attention in physics lol.....too much higher level math. I was fine till I got to trig and calc.


Aw, shucks!

The density dependence of the aerodynamical forces acting on a disc comes from Bernoulli's principle. The motion of an object through a fluid (i.e., air) gives rise to pressure gradients; pressure gradient forces are responsible for drag, lift, and turn. All of these forces scale proportionally to the change in pressure induced by the motion of the object through the fluid. From experience, we know that these forces increase as the air speed (speed of an object relative to air) is increased. The fluid density times the square of the speed of motion divided by two is called the kinetic pressure. By Bernoulli's principle, the sum of the kinetic pressure and actual pressure are supposed to stay constant along a streamline if the viscosity of the fluid is negligibly small. This means that the pressure along a streamline changes from its ambient value away from the object to a different pressure just adjacent to the object, because the relative speed of the air goes to zero at the edge of the object (the air next to the surface is stuck to it). Therefore the pressure change next to the object changes as the kinetic pressure changes, density times air speed squared divided by two.

Anyways, air density models exist, where you can dial in temperature, humidity, altitude, etc. (equation of state of air). Just so you know, the forces all scale with density, it is the relevant variable.

Also, the drag increases with increased density, but so does the lift. For a straight and level flight, the disc flies pretty much the same distance at different densities, but the duration of the flight changes.

Discs will turn over easier at higher density because the torque (arising from the pressure gradient acting off-center) also scales with density times air speed squared divided by two.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
JHern
Please ask me about my insider info on pros! Oh GOD please ask me!
User avatar
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:50 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Favorite Disc: Clutch


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest