Finnish in your face

[Itchy]

Parks: I took this quote:

The classic example being that black people doing sit-ins in whites-only restaurants were also doing illegal things.

to mean you were calling me a racist. That one is my bad and I apologize. I took it way out of context, you were just playing devil's advocate and I see your point.

Apoth:

Parks: Boom, I'm a racist too. Were the sit-in-ers deliberately keeping the police corralled so that if real crimes happened they couldn't leave?

Huh?

right? look, itch, i know its hard to enunciate when youre talking out your asshole, but could you at least TRY to make sense? did OWS corral the cops? i hadnt heard that. please cite your source.

OK, I'll cite your post as my source then...

This hardly rates versus all the shit going on in the world today but if you want to non-violently protest at the University of California... this cop is a true professional!




Univ. police chief on leave after pepper spraying
In this Friday, Nov. 18, 2011, photo University of California, Davis Police Lt. John Pike uses pepper spray to move Occupy UC Davis protesters while blocking their exit from the school's quad Friday in Davis, Calif. Two University of California, Davis police officers involved in pepper spraying seated protesters were placed on administrative leave Sunday, Nov. 20, 2011, as the chancellor of the school accelerates the investigation into the incident. (AP Photo/The Enterprise, Wayne Tilcock)

ooh the anons didnt appreciate this officers services. theyre urging personal communication via email, home and cell phones and address for communicating via pissed off pizza delivery boy.

Now onto Anonymous. Giving out a police officer's home address or phone number maliciously is a crime as well.

146e. (a) Every person who maliciously, and with the intent to
obstruct justice or the due administration of the laws, or with the
intent or threat to inflict imminent physical harm in retaliation for
the due administration of the laws, publishes, disseminates, or
otherwise discloses the residence address or telephone number of any
peace officer, nonsworn police dispatcher, employee of a city police
department or county sheriff's office, or public safety official, or
that of the spouse or children of these persons who reside with them,
while designating the peace officer, nonsworn police dispatcher,
employee of a city police department or county sheriff's office, or
public safety official, or relative of these persons as such, without
the authorization of the employing agency, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=142-181

But in this case, it seems the shoe is on the other foot. I've never heard of an individual being held responsible for something Anonymous does. Much like I've never heard of an individual police officer being held responsible for what they thought was upholding the law.

[Apothecary]

maybe your definition of corral is different than mine but...those cops dont look like theyre having a hard time getting anywhere they want to go to me. :\

[Jesse B 707]

maybe your definition of corral is different than mine but...those cops dont look like theyre having a hard time getting anywhere they want to go to me. :\

No doubt, seeing as there is cops behind them as well as in front it seems they could probly navigate their way around this mighty human wall without the use of pepper spray, also if we are gonna point out CA laws, it is punishable by up to 18 months in jail and $1000 to use pepper spray on anyone who isnt an immediate threat to yours or the safety of others

[Itchy]

It's illegal to speed people too, but cops do it. I'm not saying anything's right or wrong, I'm saying from a legal stand point, they technically have a leg to stand on. Just because the 5-ish cops to the right aren't being delayed or obstructed doesn't mean the 2-ish to the left aren't also. If the law said you had to obstruct or delay every cop in the world, then nobody would ever get arrested (or pepper sprayed) for it.

All I'm saying is I don't have sympathy for people who get pepper sprayed for doing something they knew was wrong. Now, the old lady who was just getting off a city bus and got pepper sprayed, that's messed up, but in my opinion those are two completely different scenarios.

[jsun3thousand]

so if i use violence against a cop that's breaking the law, it's cool?

[Itchy]

Is it your job to enforce the law against the police officer? I'm sure under some scenario it's legal, but not under a blanket statement like that.

Don't be a shithead, don't get pepper sprayed. Seems simple to me?

Let's say you were speeding and a cop pulls you over. You've never had a ticket before and never been in trouble before. The cop makes a judgment call that all you need is a warning and doesn't give you a ticket. People always love it when cops make that kind of judgment call. Instead of booking everyone in that human chain he pepper sprayed them. Might be excessive BUT if they'd moved (or not broken 148. (a) (1) in he first place) they wouldn't have ever given the cop an opportunity to spray them. They knew what they were doing, payed the price and then want to cry police brutality about it.

I'd be surprised if anything happened to that cop. Instead, the department will get a civil lawsuit and some sympathetic jury might award money. That cop wont pay that, the tax payers in the county that department is in will pay it.

[/two_wrongs]

[jsun3thousand]

it's everyone's job to make sure the police follow the law. we give the police/the state power because we believe in both the law and police/state power.

if we all followed your logic of not being stupid and following authority, we'd still have slavery because those damn abolishionists should have never challenge the state. throw out civil, women's, and gay rights too because civil disopediance is dumb because it breaks the law and might result in the state using force. i guess those without power or representation should just ask nicely instead.

[Itchy]

...if we all followed your logic of not being stupid

Then we would have never had slavery, civil, women's, and gay rights issues to begin with. Everyone really would have been created equal and not different.


Civil disobedience doesn't have to break the law.

[7ontheline]

@7ontheline:

No to fan the flames, but what they're doing is illegal;

Civil disobedience doesn't have to break the law.

Here's a good read on civil disobedience from a real true professional: http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html

[Itchy]

Well, the story that I heard was she wasn't even breaking the law since she wasn't in a white-only seat. So that's kind of a bad example since those students were breaking the law. I would have gone with The Boston Tea Party or Gandhi. Actually, not sure Gandhi ever broke the law either, I know he did time in jail, but not sure if it was for breaking the law.

The other side of that is the current state of the civil rights movement for blacks in the south. Since civil disobedience works so well there must not be any ill treatment towards blacks today, right?

I just don't think it's a good way to try and change things, that's all. And I definitely don't feel bad when you force a cop's hand and he uses force on you. Yeah, the cops could have handled it better but the students put them in the position to treat it that way. I still don't see why I should feel bad for the students that got pepper sprayed.

As for the Thoreau paper, I could put up 3 papers from Plato about why it's not OK to defy state laws you morally don't agree with. One is even written about why he allowed the state to kill him rather than escaping based on a moral argument.

[7ontheline]

Well, the story that I heard was she wasn't even breaking the law since she wasn't in a white-only seat.

Don't listen to my story read the complaint again... or for the first time ^^^ BTW who's Plato, didn't that used to be a planet?

Well, the story that I heard was that a nigger not giving up a seat to a white bread honky cracker is just begging to be pepper sprayed for breaking such a moral law.

[Apothecary]

itchy you really are part of the problem.

[Itchy]

7ontheline: Yeah, I did read the complaint. When I took American History I was lead to believe she wasn't breaking any law, but it was a trumped up charge.

Pluto = not a planet
Plato = person

Apoth: I very well might be the problem, but I'd guess none of those kids who got pepper sprayed have any clue how tuition at a UC or SU is set in California. Sitting in the quad isn't even the right venue to begin to try and change it. If anything, they increased their tuition if somebody decides to go to civil court for damages and that cop is campus pd. They pay for that department (and it's liability spending) with their tuition.

In my eyes, the UC Davis incident was dumb kids being dumb, nothing heroic or aimed at any kind of real change. You want to change something, get involved in student leadership and put yourself in a position to be heard. That's my opinion.

[Apothecary]

I just don't think it's a good way to try and change things, that's all.

what, pretell, would you say would be a better way to take back our government?

[Jesse B 707]

I just don't think it's a good way to try and change things, that's all.

what, pretell, would you say would be a better way to take back our government?

Lining up and voting on election day.........