Westside Kalevan Miekka (sword)

[7ontheline]

I've been working on my reachback and with the added spin my Sword needs to be hyzer flipped 10-15 degrees for contolled golf line stable D. Hyzer flip release equals happy 7.

[jubuttib]

More spin should mean less hyzer required. But great to hear it's working for you. =)

[7ontheline]

Damn... and after a couple weeks I thought I had it all figured out. Only real complaint is that the color shift orange SUCKS in the falling leaves, if it wasn't shinny I'd have lost it by now.

[jubuttib]

Well, if you're also getting more speed... =)

[7ontheline]

I'm copying and pasting this same write up from Bradley's "I Love My Katana" thread since it has my first impressions of Westside's King compared to others including my goto distance driver, the Sword.
_____
Can't sleep. I got my 173 Tournament King yesterday and took my distance drivers to the field for a test drive.

PLH (Lowest to Highest):
173 Tournament King/ +.75 mm plh 172 Z Nuke / +0.25 mm 168 (not 167 as previously recalled) Pro Katana / +0.75 mm 171 Star Katana / +0.25 170 Tourney Sword

Dome (Lowest to Highest):
Startana (flat starting from stamp) / Sword (flat starting from stamp ) / Protana (moderate dome)/ King (domey; non-drooping leading edge)/ Nuke (a hair domeier than King)

The past few weeks I've been tinkering with my form trying to add more reachback and quick footed run ups so my Katanas, which haven't been in the bag for a few months now or involved in the new form practice, weren't turning over like I remember them doing. They did have several half hit stall outs like I remember them doing. I finally gave my newish Star Katana a few degrees anny and had a wide sweeping s-curve out to around 450'.

The King performed very well and flipped up and over on similar feeling throws to my Sword. I had several throws to 450' with a few shorter ones landing around 410'. I had to wait for some dog walkers to clear and got a little break at the end of my session and quit on my longest rip of the day close to 470'. The King as mentioned earlier needs a wide open space similar to my Katanas. I had several throws into a 10mph headwind which aided the turn a fair amount but didn't burn it over like it might with my Protana. I tried to turn the King over into a roller and it hit the ground about 30' right of straight less than 300' out into a cut roller left. I'm not sure I can put enough anny with my form to do the same with my Z Nuke.

I struggled turning the Nuke over today and had more than half fade out early ending left of my target line. I did get one throw out to 450' on a tight s-curve that may have gone further with more than the 15' height I gave it.

The Sword isn't in the same distance class but the consistant hyser flip turnover was there everytime and on tighter s-curves than all the above. I'd estimate it to be 20' shorter than my King today but the shortest throws were longer than my shortest King throws. Now that I think about it the short King throws were early in the session before I realized I could throw it the same way I throw the Sword.

[discspeed]

I got my original VIP Sword back from out of the water a couple weeks ago and I've been using it a lot since...So far it seems that even though the VIP Swords lose a significant amount of their initial stability rather quickly, they seem to reach a point and stay pretty well. Hopefully this disc stays in my bag (and out of the water) so I can see for sure that this is the case in the coming months.

The Sword is really not a flashy distance disc, but for some reason I feel like I have better control over it on the lines I regularly need than any other distance driver I've spent time with. It can only take a certain amount of wind before I need to step up to another disc (currently the Quasar), but it handles most situations without trouble. It also does hyzers, straight shots, S turns, and anhyzers without being as touchy as faster discs. Basically it is a slightly farther/lower flying version of a Wraith or Flow.

[JR]

I agree about the lower flying part. From talking to Janne Penttilä of Westside Discs i don't know what the flight characteristics differences between the first and later runs should be. I think based on how discspeed has described the flights to the same D i get later runs are straighter. FR VIP comes out well from a mild anny for great s-curves and FR TP does that way later and from milder anny angles. The TP can crash anny on low high power shots, there is little margin of error for additional anny angle to intended amount. Flat discs often won't fight back well from an anny.

[dehaas]

so the consensus is that the vip swords are a bit more hss and lss compared to the tournament ones? i've got a 169 colorshift that is starting to wear into a straighter disc and i'm digging its flight. i've also got a few gl flows in the 170 range and didn't know if people have been carrying both or if there is too much overlap to use both. the flow seems to fly like a bit faster and longer river, but a similar type of line for me. the sword seems a bit faster and more like workhorse distance driver.

[JR]

I have no color shifts in any mold so can't comment on that, but every VIP and Opto have been more HSS and LSS than TP and GL.

[discspeed]

so the consensus is that the vip swords are a bit more hss and lss compared to the tournament ones? i've got a 169 colorshift that is starting to wear into a straighter disc and i'm digging its flight. i've also got a few gl flows in the 170 range and didn't know if people have been carrying both or if there is too much overlap to use both. the flow seems to fly like a bit faster and longer river, but a similar type of line for me. the sword seems a bit faster and more like workhorse distance driver.

The VIP Swords are a little more HSS and LSS than the Tourney when new, though the two plastics have broken in at the same rate for me. I suspect that the T will continue to break in and the VIP is going to stay how it is now for a long time. The other slight difference between the VIP and T Sword (mine are similar weight, dome, and PLH) is that the T glides a little more and the VIP takes torque a bit better. The difference is most obvious at the end of the flights where the T keeps it's height and forward flight and the VIP drops and fades earlier. Right now I carry a seasoned T, a seasoned VIP, and a newish VIP, and they all get thrown regularly. I pair them with a Quasar for strong head/crosswinds and hyzers/skip shots.

I straight up replaced my Flows with the Sword, and I throw the Sword for all of the shots that I used to throw the Flow for. To me they are essentially the same stability once broken in a little...Though it's hard to say because my Opto Flows were the early run, which were the super stiff and durable Opto plastic. New Flows and VIP Swords are made of the softer Opto, which is not as durable. The only thing the Flow did a little better for me was to hold a hyzer/finish hyzer, but again I would need a stiff Opto VIP Sword to test if this was a characteristic of the mold or the material..

[discspeed]

The VIP Swords are a little more HSS and LSS than the Tourney when new, though the two plastics have broken in at the same rate for me. I suspect that the T will continue to break in and the VIP is going to stay how it is now for a long time.

A couple of months have passed and my VIP Sword has seen hundreds more throws and is still the same stability as it was after the initial break in.

[ManU]

this is nice to know
our courses don't have enough trees to properly season a VIP...and it is cold enough here now that the VIP is too hard so I only carry the Tournament

my primary T Sword seasoned nicely but it got good use on my vacation in Florida...and the courses there "allowed" me to hit plenty of wood

[Jeronimo]

You're crazy Mike, Flow = Sword. The difference is in your head.

[Booter]

the flow is more stable than the sword,atleast the good ones are

[discspeed]

You're crazy Mike, Flow = Sword. The difference is in your head.

They certainly fill the same role, but they are not the same disc.
As far as stability goes, it's hard to say because I've only thrown a couple of different Swords...I throw the cobalt blues, and they seem to be the most stable of the Swords we have at CDGS.