PLZ Critique

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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby JR » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:36 pm

I got surgery from RSI and not all the gunk squeezing the nerves was removable due to the danger of the surgeon doing more damage than healing. I have no idea about the frequency of subconscious letting go to protect the body, but it happens to me. Maybe to you too. I'm not sure if even letting the tendons heal for a minimum of 6 months would help in overcoming the subconscious once the protection mode is triggered. Maybe you can get over that by healing properly. For me it ain't gonna happen so you get to be the DGR guinea pig for that :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:33 pm

CatPredator wrote:
seabas22 wrote:I think my grip is still off and when I was forcing the wrist too far down as far as possible when it hurt. I can't really find a comfortable grip so the disc is parallel to the forearm or down. I often feel the disc slipping out. Not sure if its just crappy grip strength or how I'm gripping.


Sounds like a problem with how your discs are situated in your hand and not necessarily grip strength. The flip back drill from the secret technique thread is useful in trying to find a comfortable grip that facilitates disc pivot/nose down during wrist extension.


Yeah I've never been happy with my grip. When I do that drill I end up close to Avery's grip which puts the disc much lower in my palm below the seem and the disc below my forearm or right at the bottom of it. I remember playing around that grip a year ago or so and it did seem to help nose down for whatever reason, but felt like I couldn't get the same accuracy. Maybe I just need to play around with it more and my form has changed quite a bit since then. It's just amazing how different grips can be, I've mostly been using the Feldy modified power grip. The only way I can get the disc parallel or down from the forearm is I would start with a two finger grip like Robbie Bratten and then put the other two fingers under the rim...that was actually when my wrist would hurt. Or the bonape grip gives me good disc orientation, but I've never actually tried throwing with it.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:55 pm

JR wrote:I got surgery from RSI and not all the gunk squeezing the nerves was removable due to the danger of the surgeon doing more damage than healing. I have no idea about the frequency of subconscious letting go to protect the body, but it happens to me. Maybe to you too. I'm not sure if even letting the tendons heal for a minimum of 6 months would help in overcoming the subconscious once the protection mode is triggered. Maybe you can get over that by healing properly. For me it ain't gonna happen so you get to be the DGR guinea pig for that :-)

I think the pain I've had throwing was just a bad grip on a few throws and went away changing back the next throw. My RSI has basically disappeared since I got back my other wrist, so I'm not too worried about it now and couldn't play disc golf during that time anyways with my broken leg and other bum ankle too, so it had a good amount of time off, basically all my limbs were bum at the same time. :cry: I had to switch to a vertical mouse when it was flaring up and still use it as my main mouse when not using the touchpad. I also found a lot of relief using the light tap feature on my macbook, although it sometimes screws up things on the computer. I know now that a bum wrist sucks way more than a bum ankle, or any other injury I've had before. Aren't we all guinea pigs? :wink:
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:03 pm

I think I found a good drill that will help me with my rear foot. :idea: I can feel a big difference in my living room, but its too cold now to try outside.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby JR » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:19 pm

Dude you thrust more than a porn star! You thrust so hard with the left leg you always fly up like in a start in swimming :-) The squat part means bent knees and that is mandatory for health and good for twisting the legs to the right and pushing _on a level plane_ parallel to the ground. Not jumping up to grab the disc you threw on a high max D line. Golfers need to follow through high so they need the thrust up. Our flat throw arm swing is on a different plane so the motions need to all be adjusted accordingly to fire everything into the same direction. Golfers go back up then squatting down then thrusting up and following through high. We do everything rotationally keeping the disc at a constant height from the ground. So almost everything in our throw has all the body parts maintaining the same height. Almost no up and down movements. Steps and their momentum being the most noticeable exception to that rule. In a flat low line drive.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby CatPredator » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:25 pm

seabas22 wrote:Maybe I just need to play around with it more and my form has changed quite a bit since then. It's just amazing how different grips can be


Indeed. I struggled with my grip for a long time before getting good ejection on my throws instead of slips. You're definitely on the right track.

seabas22 wrote:The only way I can get the disc parallel or down from the forearm is I would start with a two finger grip like Robbie Bratten and then put the other two fingers under the rim...that was actually when my wrist would hurt.


This is pretty much what I had to do as well, although I never felt any pain. If you fiddle with it long enough I imagine you'll get it. Thumb pressure through wrist extension is what keeps the disc on the same plane/nose down through the hit and forces the ejection. Keep trying to find a comfortable grip that allows you to maintain good contact with your index finger on the inside of the rim, and thumb pressure on top of the disc even after you've cleared your wrist past neutral, all while visualizing and feeling the weight of the head of the hammer out in space to maintain that feeling of really leveraging the shit out of the disc straight out from your forearm. That probably means you'll have to adjust how your middle, ring, and pinky fingers apply pressure to the disc.

Best of luck...
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:35 pm

JR wrote:Dude you thrust more than a porn star! You thrust so hard with the left leg you always fly up like in a start in swimming :-) The squat part means bent knees and that is mandatory for health and good for twisting the legs to the right and pushing _on a level plane_ parallel to the ground. Not jumping up to grab the disc you threw on a high max D line. Golfers need to follow through high so they need the thrust up. Our flat throw arm swing is on a different plane so the motions need to all be adjusted accordingly to fire everything into the same direction. Golfers go back up then squatting down then thrusting up and following through high. We do everything rotationally keeping the disc at a constant height from the ground. So almost everything in our throw has all the body parts maintaining the same height. Almost no up and down movements. Steps and their momentum being the most noticeable exception to that rule. In a flat low line drive.

Porn star thrust... :lol: I don't know why, but that drill feels different than what I've been doing. Wouldn't it help for hyzer hips? I feel like it brings my rear hip through lower and loads my rear hip better.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby JR » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:42 pm

Squat and thrust is great for spike hyzers and porn star thrust is tremendous for putting, not for driving. It's all about having every muscle moving the body in the direction of throw thus plane matching for every body movement. porn star thrusting for real back to front with bent waist at the reach back and straight waist upright posture at the hit is a legitimate way to improve putting. So i was only half kidding, but it is bad for drives unless spikes to push forward and up.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:55 pm

JR wrote:Squat and thrust is great for spike hyzers and porn star thrust is tremendous for putting, not for driving. It's all about having every muscle moving the body in the direction of throw thus plane matching for every body movement. porn star thrusting for real back to front with bent waist at the reach back and straight waist upright posture at the hit is a legitimate way to improve putting. So i was only half kidding, but it is bad for drives unless spikes to push forward and up.

So I want to squat and thrust around like dick smacking a ho porn star style in the throw direction? I know the porn star thrust has helped putting power. :D
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby JR » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:14 pm

Whatever floats your boat, but i was kidding and you shouldn't thrust like in the golf instruction video or xxx vids in a flat drive. Porn thrust is out for anything but putts. Golf thrust is in only for spike hyzers. The legs and the hips should only rotate from left to right maintaining constant altitude for each body part for a flat shot.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:09 am

New vid, still making progress. Was playing around with slightly different grip pressures and timings. Hole 5 has 240fps of BH, and Hole 11 has 240fps of FH. :D

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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby JR » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:44 pm

Health first. In the foot pivot you straighten your right knee from a safer bent position. Stiffening the leg muscles to delay the pivot to allow the momentum to automatically twist the hips (you should add to it actively) does not mean that you are jumping straight up. You can stiffen the leg muscles and keep the bent knee stance. That will reduce the strain on the knee and other body parts as well.

Check out the slo mo sidearm drive rear leg movement back to front and right to left and compare it to your BH. The FH is a correct Feldy type leg kick and the BH is missing power. By not moving back to front but down to up. This ain't a high jump event :-)

The follow though step does not mirror the plant step and isn't aligned with the run up direction. You vary from too short follow through to too much. That means you're off balance and lose some power ans especially repeatability. I wish my arm could handle FH you're at an advantage to many being so versatile. There was one approach FH where you stopped the wrist and the arm without any follow through. That guys and gals is what needs to happen in any FH throw for a moment until the disc has pivoted and ripped. In drives it would be dangerous to miss out on the follow through because that will create a backlash above the elbow AKA golfers elbow. The forearm muscles and tendons get a good shake up too.

A nice video showing the holes from the other end too.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:20 am

Thanks again JR, I think I understand BH footwork better now bending the front knee more, although I don't understand how Ken Jarvis can throw so upright. That bent front knee would explain why I've been crushing more on uphill tees/stances. FH is just natural from playing baseball and QB, and so BH the footwork is opposite and unnatural. I crushed that FH drive on hole 11 with little effort, short pin is 520' and parked, not sure the elevation drop, don't think it's more than 10'.
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby seabas22 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:42 pm

Knee is starting to feel better after bad experiment few months ago. I think I've gotten more hoppy and squatty since. Had some nasty grip slips with the Bliz Boss where my index fingernail cut my thumb joint up, but still got some good distance. The hole distances in the vids are all to A pins, about half were in B pins.

Couple drives and slomo: 1.and 2. ESP Venom, 3. Pro Rogue, 4. Star Teebird, 5,6,7. 150 Bliz Boss, 8. P PD, 9. ESP Venom


Course straight through:


Course straight through:
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Re: PLZ Critique

Postby JR » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:53 am

With the FH shots that have run ups do you really need to reach back that far that often? You might not lose any D reaching back only to the side. You lift the right leg up before the disc leaves and here's what Ville Piippo wrote on Finnish Frisbee Association boards about that: "You lose a lot of power lifting the leg before the disc has left". Few FH as far as he does and he's injured and usually he doesn't bring the disc much beyond the right side in the reach back at all.

Now that you are hurting and need to take it easy it is the best time to experiment with new form. So how about slowing the steps down -even taking only the x steps and this time concentrating on bringing the left leg forward right of the right leg instead of up?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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