FTT's (slower) bag project

[Fightingthetide]

Testing this out for the new year. Thoughts? See any overlap?

Distance
169 E* Wraith
168 Pro Wraith
171 Champ RR
166 Star RR
(168 Star Wraith, once the E* WR beats in)
(171 C/S Wraith for windy days and/or courses that need big skip shots)

Fairway
175 C PD (flat)
171 C PD
168 S PD
167 P PD
172 Star Leopard
170 Echo Star Leopard
170 Pro Leopard (might drop it if the E* beats in soon)

Mids
175 CFR Gator
180 C MD2
174 P MD2 (flat)
180 D MD2 x2

Putters
172 S Ion
170 M Ion
171 DX Aviar P&A x2
(might add Anodes)

[JR]

Looks good to me.

[Fightingthetide]

I feel good with keeping and continuing to learn my mids and driver molds - Wraith, Roadrunner, PD, Leopard, Gator, MD2. It's the putter department needs some work. Here is what I am testing out right now:

170 M Ion - Drives
172 S Ion - Drives
170 12x KC Aviar - everything
172 D P2 - everything
172 DX Aviar PnA - everything
175 Champ Rhyno - windy days
166 Pro Rhyno - windy days

I really like putting with my P2 and Aviar PnA. The KC Aviar is great for drives, and the PnA compliments it well. So I might end up with a P2/Aviar PnA combo for putts with a KC/PnA combo for drives and approaches.

My KC Aviar and D P2 got just as far as my Ions. Thinking about dropping them (anyone want to trade or buy?). Also, the Rhynos were great when I need a brick, but honestly I feel like I can get by without them.

Anyway, this is what I'm thinking right now - KC/P2/PnA

[Crosseyed0811]

I feel good with keeping and continuing to learn my mids and driver molds - Wraith, Roadrunner, PD, Leopard, Gator, MD2. It's the putter department needs some work. Here is what I am testing out right now:

170 M Ion - Drives
172 S Ion - Drives
170 12x KC Aviar - everything
172 D P2 - everything
172 DX Aviar PnA - everything
175 Champ Rhyno - windy days
166 Pro Rhyno - windy days

I really like putting with my P2 and Aviar PnA. The KC Aviar is great for drives, and the PnA compliments it well. So I might end up with a P2/Aviar PnA combo for putts with a KC/PnA combo for drives and approaches.

My KC Aviar and D P2 got just as far as my Ions. Thinking about dropping them (anyone want to trade or buy?). Also, the Rhynos were great when I need a brick, but honestly I feel like I can get by without them.

Anyway, this is what I'm thinking right now - KC/P2/PnA

Personal choice, but I prefer to have only one true putter mold. You can putt with anything, but its developing consistency with what you use that will make you a great putter. My typical advice for putters: pick a mold you like, find at LEAST 2 taht are as identical as you can find because its much easier to practice with more than one putter, and NEVER throw your putting putter for anything other than a putt. Oh and of course PRACTICE A LOT with those putters and only those putters. For driving putters you can do whatever you want, but I feel like more often than not, if you stick with one and only one putter for actual putting purposes you'll become a better putter.

tl/dr;
I would think you'd be better off picking either the P2 or the PnA and sticking with it for putting rather than trying to use both.

[Fightingthetide]

Edit - just realized you were probably talking about putting, not other uses for putters (like driving and approach)

Can't say I totally agree with you there. I think a few molds opens up your range of possible shots. And really, I was testing all of those molds for each role to see what I liked. But I see what you are saying as far as practicing and using one for putting to improve consistency (agree with you there). Anyway, I played Renaissance yesterday and here is what I came up with: (bold = shipping to me now...made a few trades yesterday)

Putter - 170 D P2 - somewhat stiff, great feel to it (need to find a 2nd or 3rd replacement, like you said)

Approach - 172 D P2 - gummy and sticks to the ground pretty well (also need to find a replacement)

Driving:
-174 12x KC Aviar - beefiest of them all, headwinds and hyzers, also great for anny shots that need to flatten out
-170 and 171 12x KC Aviars - rotation, main driving putter, straighter finish than the 174
-166 12x KC Aviar - i'll take this one on courses that have uphill shots, and mainly use it to throw in the field and play around with
-171, 172, 172 DX Aviar PnA's - rotation for understable approaches and understable drives (once they each beat in)

So while I have 3 molds, they are all so similar (P2 and KC's are almost the same, and PnA's are like thinner versions of both) and I have a use for each one.

[Crosseyed0811]

Yeah I was talking about JUST putting. Approaches and Drives, the more discs you have the more shots you have available and the less bag space you have availiable. Personal preference trade off.

Most pro's I've heard speak about good putting however claim that when it comes to being a good putter, get a mold and stick with it. Just speaking of the "30ft and in" range putting. Basically what it boils down to is most believe in that short of range moreso than ever its the archer not the arrow. And the archer is much more consistent if all his arrows fly the same every time he shoots.

[Fightingthetide]

Gotcha. Yeah, the trade off for me is actually a good thing - less space = learning to use less drivers and more mids and putters. Which actually equalizes the amount of each in my bag. I think right now I have 10 drivers and 9ish mids/putters.

Anyway, I think the whole "archer, not the arrow" thing is true, but I have yet to actually stick to one arrow for a consistent amount of time. I'm going to stick to P2's for putts, and maybe switch to KC's once the warmer months come around and I need something a bit firmer. I figure by then my KC's will be sweetly broken in for putting. Thanks again for your input here. Let me know if you are coming up to Charlotte to play any time soon. Weekends are usually best.

[Fightingthetide]

Building up my stack of putters. More testing on drives, approach, and putting. I have been using P2's for putts, but not convinced they are different from KC Aviars in the circle except for a softer flight plate (which is fine in cold weather).

Anyone want to recommend a good putting technique video? I've been battling with inconsistent releases and could use some help there.

12x KC Aviars - 174, 173, 171, 170, 166
D P2s - 172, 170
DX PnA's - 172, 171, 171

[Crosseyed0811]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq_bh_GtjtQ

Not a technique video, but one I've always recommended when working on putting.

Technique depends on push vs spin vs short arm vs whatever else I've not heard of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4spUSMi6xm0
Scott Papa vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtO3pwFesZ0
Cameron Todd and Dave Feldberg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGqxVG3FibQ
Beato

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqn3FcqwYiM
McCabe

[JR]

Number one trick that helped me get fewer misses is to sharply accelerate the arm. The trick to doing it is to relax the arm muscles especially in the forearm. Boxing practice creates the infrastructure for faster nerves and stronger and faster arm. All it took for me was punching the air holding a Wii remote. The second best help was in pre throw routine setting myself to face the basket so that my spine to pole line intersects the middle of the disc and my body movement in the weight shift and the arm motion makes the disc move on that line from start to finish of the arm motion. The third best trick was to make sure i faced the basket. The fourth issue is to find as stable a stance as possible. Stagger stance can slip in the weight shift uphill or in wet conditions. Straddle stance or rising to the balls of the feet helps in reducing/removing foot slips.

[Fightingthetide]

Thanks for the videos and tips. It's helping a lot. I'm still working on getting a consistent stance. Sometimes a straddle putt works better, especially inside the circle. Outside the circle I have more of an athletic stance. And lining up my spine with the basket and "painting the pole" has helped...as well as learning to get more spring from my fingers under the plate.

Also, there's a big gap between my PD's and Roadrunners. I'll try to do some testing with Teebirds, P PD's, and TD's to go between. Anyone have other suggestions for the stable control slot?

My only problem with P PD's is that the recent runs tend to be horrible.

[Fightingthetide]

TD's are in for the stable control slot. I have a 172 Star that seems to have a tiiiny bit of champ in it, and a 169 Star that has a ton of champ in it. Both are amazing discs. The champystar TD holds the most beautiful controlled turnovers or penetrates really far forward on a hyzer. The other TD is a more stable version.

My 148 Blizzard Katana is absolutely bombing. I'm getting field practice D during my rounds...at least 350'. It has a really controllable flip from hyzer and a very late fade that is pretty reliable if I give it enough initial hyzer. On a tailwind, nothing beats this.

I still have a 167 Star Roadrunner, but it might lose it's job to my champystar TD. And my Leopards didn't get any love today because I was either in range for my MD2, or needed the reach of my TD. The Leo's will probably stay for uphill midrange shots when my MD2's would slow down too fast. Also debating the need for my Firebird.

Distance - 148 Blizz-tana / 169 Star Wraith / 169 E* Wraith
Drivers - 168 S PD / 172 S TD / 169 S TD
Fairway - 172 Star Leo / 170 E* Leo
Mid - 175 CFR Gator / 178 C MD2 / 178 D MD2 x2
Putters - 175, 171, 170, 166 12x KC Aviar / 172, 170 DX PnA

[Fightingthetide]

Slimming down to 12 + 2. I went a little overboard with my Fade Tourney bag...dont need all of those discs.

Where I need help - drivers and mids. I'm not sure if I need a more stable PD. It doesn't turn (yet) from a flat throw, but it's lost some of it's beef. Also not sure if I need a mid that will have a long life as a neutral mid. My D MD2's will turn from flat. One fades more while the other keeps turning. It's tough on tunnel shots because they don't really flip up from a slight hyzer. It's more of a late turn rather than an immediate turn, so I either get looooong hyzers or a subtle turning flight.

I'm okay dropping the 172 S TD and the Gator in favor of a neutral mid and new PD.

Distance
148 Blizzard Katana - max D, tailwinds
169 E* Wraith - control D

Drivers
175 12x Champ FB (tiny dome) - beef, overhand
168 S PD - forehands, overstable, workable
172 S TD - stable control
169 C/S TD - stable control, less stable
172 Star Leopard - understable, fairway

Mids
175 CFR Gator - headwind approaches, skips, beefy
178 C MD2 - stable mid, headwinds
178 D MD2 - late turn, soft fade
178 D MD2 - late turn, no fade

Putters
170 D P2 - putter
172 D P2 - driving, approach
172 D P1 - beat to understable

[JR]

Have you tried a Coyote for lasers in tunnels? Not knowing your preferences and the courses you play i can't make an informed suggestion regarding the PDs except get a right kind and break it into a state you like and keep a rotation and you should have a disc you like even in the details of the flight. Or you could try to find a new primo discs that will stay in your optimum for a long time. What that is depends on your needs and preferences as well as your form and power.

[Fightingthetide]

Have you tried a Coyote for lasers in tunnels? Not knowing your preferences and the courses you play i can't make an informed suggestion regarding the PDs except get a right kind and break it into a state you like and keep a rotation and you should have a disc you like even in the details of the flight. Or you could try to find a new primo discs that will stay in your optimum for a long time. What that is depends on your needs and preferences as well as your form and power.

Playing in Charlotte, NC with a wide variety of holes. Putters out to 225' to 250'. MD2's are getting out to 275'. Leo reaches around 300' comfortably, or more if given juice. PD/TD around 320' or more. Wraith to 350'. Blizztana to 375' if the angle is right.

I feel like the shot I am missing is the low-powered tunnel shot out to 275'. Beyond that my Star Leo is a laser. So would a Coyote fit the bill there? Or maybe a mako, fuse, axis...or maybe a lighter S or P MD2 to stick to fewer molds? Not sure if they would still fade out too much.

Good call on the PD rotation. Right now I dont have a need for a beefy PD. My firebird does well in that spot, but only gets used for utility stuff. Even at 168, the PD I have currently is exceptional into the wind. I know technically it should get more D with a 175, but I've never seen much of a difference in headwind D when I had max-weight C PD's. All they did was fade more and actually get a little less D. Should I just stick with the weight I know?