Power Pocket Followup

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

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Re: Power Pocket Followup

Postby himynameismatt » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:32 pm

Blake_T wrote:you are basically getting it.

the trick is to learn to "tug it" with your rip pinch harder and harder as you progress. messing around with a two-finger grip may help improve your timing a bit more as well since it's almost impossible to hold on unless everything is clicking.


I can vouch for this. I broke the ring finger on my throwing hand this summer, switched to a grip using only my index and middle fingers. Turning my shoulders too fast or beginning my pull through at the wrong time with this grip would lead to some really ugly shots with lots of disc slip. I think it really helped me slow things down, which my is usually my main problem. I rush a lot of things in my form trying to get the disc out there when the opposite is usually better. However after some adjustments and practice I began throwing just as far with a two finger grip as a I did a full power grip. Even better when when finger healed up there was definitely a 20'-30' increase in my driving distance when I went back to my old grip.
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Re: Power Pocket Followup

Postby soupdeluxe » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:16 pm

Hello All
Its been a while and I am still working hard at my throw. Getting the disc to my power pocket and close to my body is becoming more natural for me. My discs are flying further and more importantly "better", I think the increased spin is responsible. I recently birdied a hole that has proved elusive to me. Its not a big deal for most of you but a milestone for me. 335' low ceiling, flat tee pad to basket on a mound, 10 foot putt. This is the first time over 300' without wind help. Anyway, all this new technique has led me to a couple of questions.
I am using a lower pull line and have moved my hand more on top of the disc. Sometimes when my disc reaches the pocket I notice the leading edge of the disc is under my forearm. The disc still unloads from this position better than it did before I started this journey. It unloads differently if I keep my forearm infront of the disc though. I assume the latter is correct?
My next question is where should a callus form on your index finger if you throw correctly? I have one about halfway between my first joint and tip of my finger a little more than halfway up if I am looking at it with my thumb pointed up. I do feel it ripping off my middle finger occaisionally but no callus there.
Last question. Who came up with this way to throw? It is so counterintuative and yet it seems to work. Left to my own devices I don't think I would have figured this out if I played for 20 years. Thank you all for this on line school it has and continues to change my game for the better.
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Re: Power Pocket Followup

Postby JR » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:59 pm

soupdeluxe wrote:Hello All
Its been a while and I am still working hard at my throw. Getting the disc to my power pocket and close to my body is becoming more natural for me. My discs are flying further and more importantly "better", I think the increased spin is responsible. I recently birdied a hole that has proved elusive to me. Its not a big deal for most of you but a milestone for me. 335' low ceiling, flat tee pad to basket on a mound, 10 foot putt. This is the first time over 300' without wind help. Anyway, all this new technique has led me to a couple of questions.
I am using a lower pull line and have moved my hand more on top of the disc. Sometimes when my disc reaches the pocket I notice the leading edge of the disc is under my forearm. The disc still unloads from this position better than it did before I started this journey. It unloads differently if I keep my forearm infront of the disc though. I assume the latter is correct?
My next question is where should a callus form on your index finger if you throw correctly? I have one about halfway between my first joint and tip of my finger a little more than halfway up if I am looking at it with my thumb pointed up. I do feel it ripping off my middle finger occaisionally but no callus there.
Last question. Who came up with this way to throw? It is so counterintuative and yet it seems to work. Left to my own devices I don't think I would have figured this out if I played for 20 years. Thank you all for this on line school it has and continues to change my game for the better.
SD


Much of the work was done in universities, where the sport picked up in the 1960s. I would imagine physics and math people needed to think anatomy and jocks. I have no idea how things evolved and have wondered about it. Mind you i should buy Frisbee books like those of Stancil Johnson, because maybe the answer lies in there.

There are many grips and that influences, where callouses are gonna form. But unless you throw hundreds of throws in a day there is a good chance, that you have micro slips or worse, if you have a callous where you do. Fixes are pinching harder, earlier and in the long run training for more grip strength. Short term fix could be to increase grip pressure with the other fingers and varying squeezing directions of each finger going through each variation to see what's what. The harder the pinky to middle fingers squeeze toward the palm, the better the chance that your index finger can hold on to the disc for a good pivot.

I haven't got enough pinch power probably. At best i get 21 RPM overworking my busted arm to hurting for days from one throw alone. Average 52-53 MPH exit speed. And i'm half hitting it and not getting the pinch to hold on to the disc until the disc leaves at around 5 o'clock, when the front of the disc is 12 o'clock. My thumb slips off of the disc usually at 3.30 o'clock at best. Usually not less than 3 o'clock. I have not been able to stop my wrist so well BH as FH. FH i'm stronger and i think that plays a part but i'm throwing slower FH too. My thumb pressure is poor. I also hurt my index finger two years ago trying to train for more pinch power. So i have two places in the throwing arm that can subconsciously loosen up muscle tension to protect the body. I am not a good diagnosis tool for testing snap and how to translate it to people in a manner that they can learn it. Because i am good for only half hitting at this point. I do get about 50' extra distance with a loose moving wrist without that great a wrist stop vs a locked wrist all the way. So i'm not that great in resisting the bending back of the wrist after starting with a loose wrist either. A shame, because it is better than a loose wrist all the way and a locked wrist all the way. There's a lot going on with the wrist and fingers in the right pec position and later.

I can't tell from experience, which way is better the leading edge under the forearm or behind the palm. For me the injuries probably dictate why the below forearm leading edge with the associated added thumb pressure requirement won't work for me. Your mileage can very well vary.
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Re: Power Pocket Followup

Postby Blake_T » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:13 am

Sometimes when my disc reaches the pocket I notice the leading edge of the disc is under my forearm. The disc still unloads from this position better than it did before I started this journey. It unloads differently if I keep my forearm infront of the disc though. I assume the latter is correct?


i find i get more power when it slips partly under my forearm but you may have different results. basically, you are attempting to do something that requires precision timing and momentum conservation. whichever yields better results with those will probably work better overall. whichever one gives a larger rotation of the disc into the launch is probably going to be more powerful.

ast question. Who came up with this way to throw? It is so counterintuative and yet it seems to work. Left to my own devices I don't think I would have figured this out if I played for 20 years. Thank you all for this on line school it has and continues to change my game for the better.


there's a lot of pro players that have aspects of this in their throwing mechanics. in terms of creating a method and teaching it, i guess i did?

my teaching methods have slowly revised over the past decade... always trying to find an easier way to teach the same f'n thing. this particular method has been in the works since ~'05-06 or so dating back to a phone conversation i had with brad walker about the 1950's-1980's baseball swing vs. the 1995-2005 baseball swing. ignoring steroids, players from that era flat out had more powerful swing mechanics than they did in previous generations. in the 70's and 80's, home run hitters were all 6'5" and 240 lbs (e.g. dave kingman, darrell evans, mike schmidt, etc.), hit like .270 with 40 homers and struck out 150 times. in the mid 90's all of a sudden it became hitting .350 with 60 homers and striking out 100 times. while the blame fell on steroids, weak pitching, a tighter wound ball, etc. the actual swing mechanics fell on the back burner. baseball right now, has had a deterioration of swing mechanics setting it back to the 80's and before. there's a few guys that have the good swing... e.g. pujols, ryan howard, etc. but if you youtube swing analysis breakdowns they're focusing on the hips and shiz... and missing the key point... which led to a second conversation with brad walker after he watched a documentary on ted williams.

low and behold, ted williams had the 90's swing but instead of pulling the bat into his front hip he pulled it wide... which is why he was a dead pull hitter and you could put 8 guys on the right side of the field to defend against him. if you pull a disc golf throw wide you get a similar type of grip lock action if you want any power. this led brad to develop a set of drills and disc modifications based around the concepts of ted williams swing. he was pretty close but i was able to find a few minor errors in the method, fix them, repackage them, and about 5 major variations later you have the current method.

it's basically the same crap from the bent elbow technique articles i wrote in like 2002-2004, but much easier to figure out.
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Re: Power Pocket Followup

Postby harkerj » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:26 pm

Mr. T - where can I find the original text of this "latest" iteration? I know I'm being lazy here and I should just pore through the pages to find it... but when I do that I invariably end up in the wrong place going down some rabbit hole that might have been written long ago and is no longer worth pursuing. Care to save me the trouble?
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Re: Power Pocket Followup

Postby Blake_T » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:38 pm

for the power pocket explanation, it's on the previous page of this thread.

it's based upon the reverse thumb lead i spoke of on the super secret technique thread.

all of it is based upon the stuff at the beginning of that thread.
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