MVP Disc Sports - Official Thread

[BrotherDave]

You're not the only one who's been wanting soft mids for a while now.

[Mike C]

I dunno how useful that would be but I'd try out a S Vector or Axis, that'd be neat.

[tjmpsu]

Just ordered my first Ions to try last night. Pretty excited. I got three soft proton 171g for putting (one will likely double as a thrower; I like to have identical sets to practice putting with) and a 175g medium proton to try out as a thrower. Those with a lot more experience with these, is this a decent enough Ion starter setup?

[jubuttib]

Definitely. I started out with just one Soft, which I got from suggesting Powergrip to MVP. Or was it the other way around... Well, anyway. =)

[Mike C]

Same, I started out with just a max weight soft. Played a putter round at my home course using just it and my 3 favorite Wizards, and after the round I was convinced I found a new putter mold. Went back to the store and grabbed a 171 S that I ended up using for my putting putter, and a 164 M that was fun to use for lower powered shots and glidey stuff before I got some Anode's.

[CloudySkyJedi]

Has anyone tried turbo putting an ion?
I would guess the mediums would be better than the softs.

[JR]

In warm dry weather a medium has enough grip for the thumb. In wet weather a soft may very well have trouble in the grip department. Softs are rigid enough for in the circle putts and i haven't tried longer turbos. If you have a lot of power behind a turbo i suppose the soft could flex. Both stiffnesses have more than enough grip on the overmold for the other fingers.

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

In warm dry weather a medium has enough grip for the thumb. In wet weather a soft may very well have trouble in the grip department. Softs are rigid enough for in the circle putts and i haven't tried longer turbos. If you have a lot of power behind a turbo i suppose the soft could flex. Both stiffnesses have more than enough grip on the overmold for the other fingers.

Softs, especially the newer ones which are not as floppy as some in the past, shouldn't flex. I've attempted >40' turbos and they performed just fine.

[JR]

I thought of the non see through softs when i wrote that they may bend in outside the circle turbos. I don't think there would be any trouble whatsoever with clear softs.

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

Maybe if you get the really softs ones, but I have a few like that and they seem to be fine.

[what'shisname]

[uNicedmeMan]

Help me understand why MVP created such overlapping discs?

I've been throwing the Ion/Axis/Vector combo for some time now and I've gotten to throw a few Anodes recently. The Ion I've been throwing (170 Soft) is quite HSS (a tiny bit of HSS turn when thrown really hard) with a very gentle LSS (hurts me on upshots when I count on the Ion fading like the wizards I'm used to). Now, granted I haven't thrown the Anodes much, they seem to have the same flight characteristics as described above (great HSS with gentle LSS) where only detail masters like discspeed or JR can quantify any differences.

IME, the Axis and Vector have similar subtle differences in flight. The Axis has great HSS with very little LSS, and IME (YMMV), the Vector has a tick more HSS (-0.5 for the Axis and 0.0 on the Vector) and quite a bit more LSS.

I guess my question is, why didn't MVP make a putter with negative HSS to better complement the Ion or a mid with positive HSS to better complement the Axis (I realize this is impossible because the Vector came out first but I think the Axis is MVPs best mid and, if the Vector had a slightly positive HSS, the lineup would be nearly complete).

What do yous guys think?

[Mike C]

I find the Axis and Vector combo to be the perfect mid setup. Right now I carry a pretty domey FR Vector with a healthy amount of fade and no high speed turn, a mild dome axis that's like -.125 HSS and 1 LSS, and a flat fairly worn axis that's like -.5 HSS, .5 LSS. Since I utilize forehands a ton for close range shots I don't feel the need for anything flippier than my flat Axis, and I have a beat to hell JLS bagged anyways.

As far as the Ion and Anode go I do think there is more overlap between them, but not so much that it isn't worth having both molds. I think one reason some people might feel this way is most players don't use a putter outside 100'. I play a lot of putter rounds and drive them almost 400' these days so when I throw Anode's and Ions back to back in the 300-400' range, I do see a big difference. All of my Ions like to fade. Some earlier and harder than others (Looking at you, max weight opaque non textured Ions) but they all want to have 0 HSS and fade a decent bit at the end of their flight.

My Anode's do not behave this way. They are much more neutral at any distance, and hold the line I put them on more than the Ion does. This makes them a superior putting putter, better for touch shots and tricky approaches, and makes truly straight drives easier to manage than the Ion. I think the Ion can be easier to range since it has a more reliable fade and less glide, but overall I prefer the Anode for anything I would use a putter for, whether it's a 40' putt or a 350' drive. I think it's good to have one of each in the bag if you use putters as drivers a lot, but if you're like most people with putters one mold is probably all you need between these two.

Here are some videos to illustrate the differences. The drives are much easier to follow if you fullscreen in 720 or 1080.

Anode showing minimal fade on a ~60' putt
Ion showing slightly less glide and more LSS on a similar putt
Anode being driven pretty straight
Anode being driven even straighter
This mild hyzer flip to flat drive would of been impossible to do with a current style Ion
This flex shot at 365' would of been impossible with any kind of Anode on the market. Notice I throw it with anhyzer and it still fades back considerably.

[JR]

Without watching the vids the text sounds right. There is also the unclean release issue to consider with the Ions. Anodes are much easier to drive with even at full power. Is your -.5 HSS, 0.5 LSS Axis longer than the newer one? I have a probably faster mildly sunken center of the flight plate Eclipse Axis that is more like -1 HSS and 0.5 LSS and that bugger is insane at keeping height even when tilted. So missing hyzer angle punishes way more than The Anode in sideways placement. And that turn is not so great at locking in to flat. It is a very punishing disc but it goes like crazy. Trick shots instead of a dependable workhorse. It has actually become very much like a Comet. Probably not powering down as straight though but i've yet to try that.

[uNicedmeMan]

Some earlier and harder than others (Looking at you, max weight opaque non textured Ions)

I want one of these.