NFL rules loophole?

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NFL rules loophole?

Postby veganray » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:27 am

A question from the Super Bowl: with about 15 seconds left, Giants were called for 12 men on the field on a Pats incompletion. They surrendered 5 yards, but were able to expend 6 seconds of the meager time remaining. Why wouldn't a defensive team in such a situation (other team around midfield down by <7 & >3 with enough time for two or three plays left) put 53 defensive guys on the field & trade the inevitable 5 yard penalty for an almost assured incompletion & 5-6 second runoff? Thoughts?

The only thing I can think of would be the negation of a sack or interception, but I'd rather defend with 53 & forego the potential for a sack or turnover for an assured incompletion & time runoff.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:44 am

A question for VR: Do you know how to create threads in the Off-topic section?
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby veganray » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:47 am

An answer for FD: Fuck you.
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby Dbuntu » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:58 am

I was also impressed by the craftiness of this call from the Giants [assuming it was intentional]. But anything over 12 is going to be tough to pass off as an honest mistake. If you were an NFL coach and sent 20 guys out to play defense the referee is going to have to make a choice to ensure that the integrity of the game is upheld.
It's not anything new to take a "smart" penalty. A common one being to take the Delay of Game if you're too far for a FG and want to give your punter a little cushion, but there's a difference between stretching rules and outright disregarding them. The first makes you a dynamic and exciting coach while the later makes you a jerk.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby veganray » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:19 am

Who cares if it isn't seen as an honest mistake? Fortunately for the NFL, Chuck Kennedy is not a referee, so the officials would have no choice but to let the play happen & enforce the rules as they are written (as opposed to making up some "spirit of the game" BS on the spot & attempting to enforce it).

BTW - I think that any coach would trade being perceived as a jerk for a greater chance of winning the game.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby nohr » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:28 am

Pretty sure the game can not end on a defensive penalty. Pretty sure that closes the any loop holes.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby jsun3thousand » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:30 am

anybody else impressed that ray learned the maximum number of player allowed on an nfl roster for this question. the answer is 47. kickers are useless except for kicking and having long, foreign last names. keep the kicker and his back up off the field, at least two guys wouldn't find their helmets in time, and the centers don't run.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby jsun3thousand » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:35 am

nohr wrote:Pretty sure the game can not end on a defensive penalty. Pretty sure that closes the any loop holes.


ray's not asking about ending the game but how to use the rules to run the clock down thus preventing the offense from having the time to run another play.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:36 am

yeah the fact they got to run off 6 seconds for those 5 yards was a pretty nice deal for the Giants. That really does need to be addressed before teams start doing it on purpose.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby abcd » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:46 am

wouldn't be suprised to see the rule modified in the offseason. <1 min and time is put back on the clock.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby garublador » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:38 pm

It only took 2 minutes of Googling to find a reference to a rule on "Palpably unfair" acts. In those situations the distance penalty is determined by the Referee after consultation with other officials. It seems pretty obvious that purposely having way too many players on the field would fall under that rule and there's a good chance the defensive team wouldn't like the results.

I wouldn't be surprised if the way the clock was handled with this particular penalty won't cause the NFL to review their rules a little bit closer. It's either that or it ends up like basketball where fouling is a good idea when you're looking to control the clock which, IMO, isn't a great way to set up the rules.
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby veganray » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:54 pm

I am quite familiar with the NFL's rules regarding "palpably unfair acts" & a referee's discretion in penalizing them. Per the NFL's definition of such, this situation qualifies as a neither a palpably unfair act by a player (NFL Rule 12-3-3) nor a palpably unfair act by a non-player (NFL Rule 13-1-7). Also, even if it did qualify, the NFL does not allow the referee the leeway to add time to the clock for a palpably unfair act:
Penalty: For a palpably unfair act: Offender may be disqualified. The Referee, after consulting his crew, enforces any such distance penalty as they consider equitable and irrespective of any other specified code penalty. The Referee could award a score. (emphasis added)
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby nohr » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:31 pm

Was 6 seconds taken off the clock b/c there were 12 men on defense? Or was it because 6 seconds after the ball was hiked it was thrown incomplete?
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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby veganray » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:36 pm

The latter
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: NFL rules loophole?

Postby nohr » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:39 pm

Ok so I don't think there is any problem at all. I can't come up with a situation that benefits the defense cheating their way to run the clock out.

Essentially the offense is given a free play. Throw deep if you score decline the penalty and you got some points. Defense with 53 (or 47) players on the field intercepts the ball you accept the penalty and get 5 yards and another shot at it.
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