Talking bout stalking (stalkers post here)

[steven]

what is the rim width of the FD? how fast and stable is it compared to stalker and leopard? z cyclone sounds more stable than z-xl?
thanks guys

[jubuttib]

FD is about speed 8 and depending on what sort you get is either not far from a premium Leo or between a premium Leo and a TB. Or something like that.

[niuvalleycane]

I'm hearing Cryztal Z Stalkers are beefy almost pred beefy, can anyone corroborate?

[JR]

Steven I would bump up the weight of the Stalker to 175 because i have not come across a mid type fade in a lower power requirement/longer disc that is as HSS as the Z Stalker 175 is. Just make sure that you get a flatter one. Glo Z Stalker is so much more HSS that it can take winds nicely but it fades like a fairway driver. A Leopard C 175 is way less HSS than a 175 Z Stalker. Fade on both is mild and comparable. I also have a 167 Z Stalker and it sure loses in consistency and ain't good in front half winds vs the 175. The difference is very significant.

I have a beefy kind of ESP Cyclone that is about as short and meathook kind as an FLX XL. Both are mutants compared to normal kinds. Some ESP Cyclones aren't as beefy. If the FD is speed 8 and it glides great from hearsay i think it is going to be a much longer disc than Steven is looking for.

[discspeed]

If the FD is speed 8 and it glides great from hearsay i think it is going to be a much longer disc than Steven is looking for.

The FD is a fairway range driver...It does have some decent distance potential if thrown hard, but it powers down really well. Considering he already has a pretty minimalistic setup I'm going to assume that he has good speed control on his throw and can lay on or back off his discs. He carries really versatile molds as well, which is why I think he would like the FD compared to a specialty disc like the Stalker. Powered down PDs also lock onto a straight line with minimal fade like the Stalker, where the FD flies on curving lines better than either.

[JHern]

just bought 2 to try...one has a little more dome than the other. i need a disc with a rim i can powergrip comfortably...I have a feeling the stalker may not be stable enough, but maybe...

As with almost every fairway driver and mid-range disc from Discraft, the flatter the top, the more forgiving it is to OAT. The flat top Stalkers are money, the domey ones are OK for finesse and have good glide but are somewhat difficult to grip and rip with a 4 finger power grip. This doesn't mean they are high speed under-stable. In fact, they are very high speed stable, but the tiniest bit of OAT/wobble will cause them to flip hard. Anyways, I tend to throw all my fairway drivers with a fork grip, since control is usually more important than raw distance.

If you want a good 4 finger power grip fairway driver, I'd recommend the flattest top ESP Cyclone you can find. On the other hand...good luck finding one, since all the recent runs I've seen had grotesque domes and also ultra-sensitive to OAT.

...I think he would like the FD compared to a specialty disc like the Stalker.

I still need to try on these FD molds...sounds like a nice disc. I was not impressed by the TD, but very impressed by the PD.

...Powered down PDs also lock onto a straight line with minimal fade like the Stalker...

This is what I've found, also...a seasoned PD and a Stalker have a great deal in common, which is why I never put both in my bag at the same time. They exhibit a similar distance range (although the PD is a tad longer). But the Stalker is easier to range than a PD, so if you go with a PD you will have more distance potential, but you need better touch to get it to stop where you want it to stop.

[jubuttib]

I still need to try on these FD molds...sounds like a nice disc. I was not impressed by the TD, but very impressed by the PD.

I was hardly impressed with them myself, they've been quite badly misnamed. Great glidey straight drivers that beat in very nicely (but take quite a long time to do that).

EDIT: I of course mean "at first"! I love them these days, ever since I figured out what they're for. =)

[JR]

I've only seen one PD that faded as little as Z Stalkers do. Most PDs when new fade like a driver and the Stalker fades like a mid newish Rancho Roc amount i'd say.

[discspeed]

I'm not really talking new PDs unless they are the stiff/flat variety of PPDs. I have a reddish-orange and fairly flat SPD (6/10) that flies on low flat lines with almost no fade from 300'-350'...Any flattish PD with some wear will do this...And you don't have to nut on them to get them flying. I had so many frozen rope shots with Stalkers that impressed me until I realized how short they were...The Stalker fades like a mid because it basically is one.

[JHern]

...The Stalker fades like a mid because it basically is one.

PD (long range driver) is longer than a Stalker (fairway driver) which is longer than a Buzzz (mid-range). All 3 of these molds have no fade after sufficient beating in.

[jubuttib]

You've got to admit, the Stalker is pretty short for a fairway driver.

[discspeed]

Yeah, the Storm, Glide, Comet, and Meteor are all as long or longer than the Stalker, albeit getting distance in a different way (glide vs. speed). If anything the Stalker is a tweener between a mid and fairway driver as the PD is a tweener between fairway and distance drivers.

I can see how if you throw Rocs the Stalker would be a better stop-gap than if you throw a longer/faster mid as there would be less overlap. The distance difference between the 2FR Buzzzes/Axis that I'm used to and the Stalker is minimal at best.

[JR]

Exactly but there is a difference in advantage of the Z Stalker over the other discs that are close to it in flight distance. Squalls are way less HSS and the ESP type material fades as much and sparkle Z fades less than the Z Stalker. The rest are less HSS too and some of them fade less. And are situational discs meaning good for only calm weather too. For me none of the others equal the D of the Stalker and the Squall that fly around 10' longer than the rest. I can't get as clean releases as some with Comets. That may cap my Comet D.

I've always known the Stalker to be a tweener and as such it pairs up with other tweeners the PD being the obvious pairing going to a longer disc and a short mid being best for a short disc. Because i prefer the Z Buzzz over the Roc it overlaps too much with the Stalker so i don't carry the Stalker any more. Z Stalker was my go to driver before the Beast. And since the Beast is longer i needed something sorter so the less wind handling Leo came back with a vengeance. I was forced to learn to control power input better to allow for more wind tolerance. Then came the River to muddy up things. Since my Opto is so much more HSS and more power hungry and can fly longer if killed they don't overlap so much. River is absolutely stepping on the toes of the Beast and the Leo but i have no trouble knowing when to use each one. Beast goes farther with less power and the River takes some winds and likes to finish left and the Leo likes right and straight shots better. The River straightens out only when punched hard and it wants so much power that i can't always supply it with enough. I need to be fresh enough and warmed up. So the three discs in the below max D role cater also for situational requirements that come from my body. That is great and gets talked about all too rarely. Knowing each disc pretty well has set up nice boundaries to when each are used.

With that said beating up a PD enough but not too far like one of my 168 S PDs is can make an effective combo with the Stalker. The snag is that all my PDs fade too much, even the beaten to too flippy S 168 PD. Grr. Stalker ain't long enough for straight shots. Enter the Leo and full power Opto River. Or new SW for rear winds and longer annies although i don't need them so i don't carry them because light Beasts anny well.

If i could get consistently straight PDs even with the need for beating them in i could make that bag work too. If the cost of replacing sweet spot flat high 150s P PDs wasn't prohibitive. I've almost been there in 2010. I had two 158 DGR flat stiff P PDs. When new they are too LSS but about one month in with the other made it almost straight enough and usable and i was fine with it for 3-4 months. But after that it became too flippy. The material wasn't durable enough for a flat disc. The disc held annies too long and the Jekyll/Hyde nature of flat low fade discs manifested itself. The difference between a flat shot, an anny that flexes to fade, flexes to flat and holds anny to the ground is around one degree for each stage. Too little margin of error for the flat ones.

Because i rarely need s-curves supplanting a flat PD with a domey new S PD doesn't help. I have the other flat P PD in new condition but with manufacturing differences making replacements hard to acquire locally and the short sweet spot IMO was a deal breaker. If there were more holes favoring the fade of the new PDs of P and S lines it would be a no brainer to carry it alongside the Leo/River/Beast/Nuke or King set. I don't play other courses than the local ones too often. Taking a PD for other courses is a good insurance so it's a backup disc.

Stalker Buzzz combo is an oddity and i don't know what Discraft was thinking of. Roc Stalker combo works way better with less overlap.

[JHern]

...the Stalker is a tweener between a mid and fairway driver as the PD is a tweener between fairway and distance drivers...

Yeah, we are in agreement. I usually consider "distance drivers" (e.g., Valkyrie, PD) to be in a different category than "wide-wing drivers" (Katana, Nuke, Halo, King, Rampage, etc.). This is just nomenclature, with no clear way to discern different categories (what's an Orc? Surge? Wraith? etc.).

The distance difference between the 2FR Buzzzes/Axis that I'm used to and the Stalker is minimal at best.

This is very true, but the difference is that the Stalker can do the same distance on a lower line, with slightly less effort, but requiring a tad more control. Still, the Buzzz prevails, IMVHO.

...i rarely need s-curves...If there were more holes favoring the fade...I don't play other courses than the local ones too often...

Willing to host you here in Santa Cruz if you ever come for vacation...would be fun to see your reaction to NorCal disc golf!

Stalker Buzzz combo is an oddity and i don't know what Discraft was thinking of. Roc Stalker combo works way better with less overlap.

Aftershock/Stalker or Buzzz/Cylone?

[JR]

Thanks for the offer. I've drooled about some of the videos i've seen from the courses around there. Aftershock Stalker would be fine other than in the tunnels because the Aftershock fades so much that you can't keep it in the fairway and for short distances the Stalker suffers from the same weakness. Buzzz/Cyclone should be fine but it also depends on what kind of Cyclone you have. For the most part Cyclones should work ok. I've had the worst luck with buying Cyclones. My ESP is a brick and useless at that and my two TPs are rollers from the get go. I have an ace with one of the TPs and i still don't like them. Too darn flippy.