Frank Delicious wrote:Every groove is a unique snowflake of suck.
Well Rocs are notoriously durable, and the D-MD2's I've seen haven't been made from a particularly good batch of D, but frankly they still take longer to beat into what I'd really call "understable" than I'd hope.kern9787 wrote:How durable are they compared to dx rocs?jubuttib wrote:The D doesn't take too long to shake that fade, the P noticeably longer, the domey C's will probably take forever to lose it.
Rocs are darn durable. =)turso wrote:How durable is a DX roc? I do know that D-MD2 can take a few good hits without much trouble.
jubuttib wrote:So yeah, considering it's a pretty neutral mold to begin with and that the plastic isn't particularly durable, the new shape does seem to make it fairly sturdy. I've yet to see one turn too flippy, if I get to that point next season I'll report back.
Every Buzzz I've ever thrown has been less HSS and quite often more LSS too (and overall more driver-like when it comes to speed and flight) than the flat C-MD2's (which admittedly are next to impossible to find, here's to hoping they'll pop up in the coming runs), and the MD2 has the added benefit that it can be thrown full power straight into a 30 mph headwind without it noticeably affecting the flight. Buzzz is indeed a straight disc if you hyzerflip it a bit, the MD2 doesn't need the hyzerflip, it's just neutral and goes straight when thrown flat. For me the grip is also better.CatPredator wrote:I skimmed the thread but didn't read every post so pardon the dumb question. Unless you're an Innova sponsored player or a European player, why bother with the MD2 over a Buzzz? The "good" flat gummy C-MD2s, which are impossible to find, sound like a CryZtal Buzzz, fast neutral mid in soft premo plastic, while the rest sound like they're all over the place, but mostly too domey and overstable. Where does the appeal come from?
jubuttib wrote:it can be thrown full power straight into a 30 mph headwind without it noticeably affecting the flight.
jubuttib wrote:Overall the MD2 is more true neutral than the Buzzz.
It is a bold statement, one that I wouldn't have believed (the old mold MD2's weren't that great in the wind) if I hadn't been the one throwing them. I was on a field trying out some Vectors, the then new Prodiscus Premium MIDARi and brought my C-MD2's as comparison. It had been windy all day, but then it really kicked up. At times it was 30 mph constantly, when it wasn't as bad it was 20 mph constant with gusts up to 30mph (I checked the numbers from a local weather service that's less than a mile away from the field, the actual field is a bit of a wind tunnel so it might have actually been even faster there). I was fully prepared to just see all of the discs flip all over the place (well, apart from the Vector perhaps), but nay, the MD2's just held their lines, constant headwinds or gusty, it didn't matter. Didn't even hurt the distance that much if I kept the nose down, got over 300' on many throws. Tried anhyzers and hyzers and it just held the angle just like when I was throwing flat. The wind naturally caught the bottom when throwing with an angle, but otherwise it didn't affect the flight. After a while I stopped throwing the other discs and just threw the MD2's (also brought P and D-lines, they didn't fare quite as well, but surprisingly good still) up and downwind for a while. Great fun.CatPredator wrote:jubuttib wrote:it can be thrown full power straight into a 30 mph headwind without it noticeably affecting the flight.
Well that is a bold statement. That certainly is something a Buzzz doesn't do, or any other disc I've ever thrown...jubuttib wrote:Overall the MD2 is more true neutral than the Buzzz.
These two quotes just don't jive together in my brain. If I ever get a chance to pick up one of these mythical pink gummies or USDGCs I'll have to try it.
As for baseline plastics, I don't think the Buzzz is all that great. I could see the MD2 having a nice edge in this department. All the D Buzzzes I've thrown have been concave/puddle top types and have less glide than you'd want in an understable mid and real dumpy turn. I heard X Buzzzes were ok but all the ones I've felt, which isn't that many, have been really R-Pro-feeling and domey.
Thanks for the info.
jubuttib wrote:I don't see why those quotes couldn't work together. A really truly neutral disc has very very high HSS so that it resists turning over when powered or in a headwind, but it also has very very low LSS so that it doesn't fade hard as it slows down.
Disc that just flies neutral at a specific speed and disc that is neutral overall are two different things. With the MD2 they've managed a pretty darn big range of neutral flight. =)CatPredator wrote:I understand the concept but most discs are more speed sensitive than that. Discs that fly really neutral at low speeds, say 30-40 mph initial velocity, slowing down to 10-20 mph or w/e before they hit the ground, usually won't stand up to a throw of 50-60mph into a 30 mph headwind and still fly stable and straight during the whole flight. If the MD2 does both, that is pretty awesome.jubuttib wrote:I don't see why those quotes couldn't work together. A really truly neutral disc has very very high HSS so that it resists turning over when powered or in a headwind, but it also has very very low LSS so that it doesn't fade hard as it slows down.
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