MD2

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Re: MD2

Postby turso » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:18 am

Smells of a conspiracy to me, not running the flat ones if they're capable of it at will, since the domey ones aren't anything special at all.
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Re: MD2

Postby CatPredator » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:22 am

You'd think they'd just flatten every mold out there, call it the "- dome", mark up the price, and sell them to people. That seems to be what people want in many molds.
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Re: MD2

Postby jubuttib » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:28 am

turso wrote:Smells of a conspiracy to me, not running the flat ones if they're capable of it at will, since the domey ones aren't anything special at all.
I don't know if they are capable of running them at will. The flat ones I've seen are opaque and gummy, whereas the domey ones are stiff and clearer. My pink flats feel almost exactly like my pink, flat, opaque and gummy Champ Banshee. It might just be the property of that particular batch of plastic, and they can't do it again if they can't get their hands on similar plastic.
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Re: MD2

Postby kern9787 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:39 am

CatPredator wrote:You'd think they'd just flatten every mold out there, call it the "- dome", mark up the price, and sell them to people. That seems to be what people want in many molds.


Dome, or a lack thereof, isn't what people are looking for in a disc (at least they don't know it isn't ;)). It can be used as an indicator of PLH, which is an indicator of relative stability. Dome isn't a perfect indicator though. Best example I can think of would be star wraiths. Early, domey KC star wraiths were stable compared to other wraiths. They had a large dome, and a high PLH. Domey echo star wraiths weren't near as stable with similar domes on them.

Don't get me wrong, if Innova could control dome in molds, they would sell a lot more discs. So long as PLH stayed consistent among them as a result. Otherwise, they'll still start out selling fast, until people realize dome isn't everything at least.
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Re: MD2

Postby Someth1ng » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:40 am

yeah its not my approach/short drive disc, the Ion/Anode have that space covered. But man is it money for the mid range drives.
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Re: MD2

Postby jubuttib » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:46 am

kern9787 wrote:It can be used as an indicator of PLH... ... Dome isn't a perfect indicator though.
For the most part it's just about irrelevant. Depending on the run the PLH and domeyness can correlate, but that only holds within a certain run, and often not even then.
kern9787 wrote:which is an indicator of relative stability
Less an indicator, more a cause.
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Re: MD2

Postby Loop » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:44 pm

There are stiff/clear flat C-MD2s. I've seen a few of them, at least a couple of lime green ones and yellows, and a few of a light red color, I would say "light salmon"...

I had 3 of the salmon colored ones, 2 were really stable, just like my pink gummy ones, and one was surprisingly understable, no idea why. Might be PLH, but I didn't really check for that...

I sold them tho, since I like the pink, soft, gummier ones better. And I already have 3 of those and they're not beating in...at all. :shock:

I don't think they can produce flat ones at will, there are some of them in each batch, but for some reason not that many. Even sponsored players are aching to get more of them.
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Re: MD2

Postby turso » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:38 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure if they knew how to push them out as flat all the time, that's what we'd find on the shelves. Too bad that, since it's an excellent disc when flat, but disappointingly unspecial with dome.
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Re: MD2

Postby discspeed » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:40 pm

You can make a disc flat...Not without exceptions, but with a little extra attention during the cooling process things can be done to make sure most discs end up flat. Discraft does it with several molds (Buzzz, Flick, NukeOS, OOP Talon), MVP does it, and even Innova has done it to runs of discs in the past (CFR CPDs). I believe it's the willingness to make the effort that is the issue.
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Re: MD2

Postby CatPredator » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:50 pm

Any comparison to be drawn between the MD2 and flat Vectors or the intentionally thrashed FR Vector discspeed? I think I remember you were the resident Buzzz expert at some point before MVP got to you. If you went through an MD2 phase I imagine you'd have opinions on the subject.
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Re: MD2

Postby JR » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:05 pm

CatPredator wrote:Right on. Good info. I'm not too concerned with how my mid/slow fairway hybrid type disc powers down below 200'. I wouldn't expect it to have a Comet/beat Roc-like affinity for height and nose up. Sounds interesting.


Damn x2. That sounds interesting because Z Buzzz won't do that and a new X has some turn especially in the wind. Now i have top try to get a flat C MD2. BTW. making flat discs ain't that hard but the PLH might change too. A hot disc upside down on a table with a weight on top...
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Re: MD2

Postby discspeed » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:16 pm

CatPredator wrote:Any comparison to be drawn between the MD2 and flat Vectors or the intentionally thrashed FR Vector discspeed? I think I remember you were the resident Buzzz expert at some point before MVP got to you. If you went through an MD2 phase I imagine you'd have opinions on the subject.


The CMD2 actually came out at the same time as the Vector(and the Pain) so I was initially trying them side by side. The MD2 flies much more "beadless", which basically means that smaller increments in release angle translate into bigger differences in flight. Even though the CMD2s I was testing had as much fade as the Vectors from a flat or slight hyzer throw, I could much more easily turn them a little out of the gate to get a very shallow and straight S flight. The Vectors won't do this the same...They will resist turning if given that same little bit of anny, and if given more anny it will hold it too late into the flight...It other words, it doesn't do shallow S shots. I think the CMD2 is a little faster than the Vector with a little less glide as well. The newer and flatter Vectors (Eclipse in particular) fly similar to the MD2 if thrown flat as they are a little faster. My seasoned FR Vector doesn't fly much like an MD2...It's much more like a slightly faster mildly seasoned KC Pro Roc.
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Re: MD2

Postby jubuttib » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:41 pm

JR wrote:[BTW. making flat discs ain't that hard but the PLH might change too. A hot disc upside down on a table with a weight on top...
A disc that comes out flat from the factory and a disc you flattened yourself are totally different things, and should never be compared to one another.
CatPredator wrote:Any comparison to be drawn between the MD2 and flat Vectors or the intentionally thrashed FR Vector discspeed? I think I remember you were the resident Buzzz expert at some point before MVP got to you. If you went through an MD2 phase I imagine you'd have opinions on the subject.
One of the Vectors I was testing on that same windy day was a flat first run, orange and straight. It really wasn't that far off from the MD2, though for me it did seem like it needed more oomph or a lower/more nose down line to fly straight, otherwise it would fade noticeably harder. The C-MD2 was easier to get to fly straight. In the harshest winds I also saw the flat Vector turn a small bit, which never happened with the C-MD2. I suspect though that this is more of a style issue and a different thrower could have the opposite happening.

From the Vectors I've thrown (even the flattest first runs) I'd wager it's pretty hard to find a Vector that has as little fade as a deflashed flat C-MD2, unless you either beat one in significantly (which is hard work), or you can manage insane spin.
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Re: MD2

Postby new013 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:07 am

Loop wrote:There are stiff/clear flat C-MD2s. I've seen a few of them, at least a couple of lime green ones and yellows, and a few of a light red color, I would say "light salmon"...


i've got one of the flat lime green/yellowish ones, it's more clear than most of the pink opaques you guys talk about. i'm so glad broD told me to buy one. every other one i've compared it to has been way more domey.

this is it next to a champ mako.

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Re: MD2

Postby Loop » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:54 am

discspeed wrote: MVP does it, and even Innova has done it to runs of discs in the past (CFR CPDs). I believe it's the willingness to make the effort that is the issue.


Funny thing is, CFR C-PDs weren't supposed to be that flat, and are considered a bad run. So I doubt they did that on purpose.
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