ultra-light discs

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

ultra-light discs

Postby Porsche320 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:11 am

I'm still developing a throw, but I'd like to have ideal discs for my level. If I can improve my game with a couple new discs, that motivates me just as much as adding distance or accuracy.
This question involves blizzard discs and disc weight in general. I wanted a max distance disc that was understable enough for me to hyzer-flip, so I went all-out on weight and picked up a 132g blizzard katana. It was a bit windy at my local course sunday morning, and that may have been the problem, but I couldn't stop this disc from flipping (even when throwing with more hyzer than a worn dx archangel needs). The one throw that actually took a good flight-path was a new personal best for me (300+'). Since no-wind is rare around here, I feel like I need to keep looking. Should I be thinking heavier blizz katana, or an ultra-light blizz boss (or something else)?? A max distance floater would be fantastic, but a good flying disc is really what is critical.
And to complicate things innova now has a mamba, which looks really appealing to my snap-less arm, but what weight? I have a champ sidewinder 165, and it is too stable for me without a headwind. (I'm still frustrated in my understanding of how much disc speed, stability rating, plastic type, weight, and wear all affect HSS. I haven't had a go-to disc since my dx archangel 166 was nearly new.)
I don't mind buying a handful of new discs, but I get dirty looks from the wife if I get too crazy. I've been sticking to champ plastic, as most of my courses are heavily wooded.

Any input appreciated. Thanks again. This forum has given me a lot of guidance since I started playing. I suck, but I'm not an embarrassment anymore.
Porsche320
Noob
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:43 am
Favorite Disc: Archangel

Re: ultra-light discs

Postby garublador » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:35 am

Porsche320 wrote:I'm still developing a throw, but I'd like to have ideal discs for my level.
Then you're barking up the wrong tree with the Blizzard discs. The ideal discs for your level are fairway driver speed discs. If you really want a distance driver, something in the speed 9 range is probably best and you can get most of those pretty light if you want.

Those ultra light, super fast discs aren't really that much more beginner friendly than their heavier counterparts. They probably cover up OAT a bit less, but they're still much more speed and nose angle sensitive, more difficult to grip and more difficult to control. They also get batted around in the wind a lot more. I actually have a 120ish g Spirit that's as overstable as any other Spirit I've thrown, but it performs terribly in the wind. It gets very little penetration (TWSS) and you can see the wind pushing it around in the air.

If you actually want "ideal" drivers I'd look at the DX Cheetah or M Polaris LS. DX Gazelles and D Cyclones are good, too but will start off on the overstable side for you, but will beat in really nice. If you want less than ideal, but still pretty good then the S Polaris LS, ESP Cyclone, Z or ESP XL or Star TL will be good choices as well. I think the lower end plastic discs will benefit you a lot more and will be less expensive in the long run, but it's not my money.
garublador
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Urbandale, IA

Re: ultra-light discs

Postby JR » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:36 pm

Light discs need less power to OAT them. And less wind pushes them off track. I don't think that the current crop of Bliz discs are necessarily the most controllable for your power. The slowest of them the Wraith may be if you find one that behaves close to a normal Wraith. I have not thrown Bliz Wraiths but have heard that they aren't as good so maybe your best bet would be to wait for a Bliz Beast when Innova gets around to releasing them. The Beast needs less power and flies straighter while having a thinner thus friendlier grip.

Going ultra light just doesn't give you more control at least up until Bliz came around. That may indeed change the game so some of the more demanding molds may well become controllable for you. Out of the molds i've heard to be eventually released as Bliz versions the Beast should be the friendliest. If you can't wait you might want to try out a Diamond.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11439
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: ultra-light discs

Postby Porsche320 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:23 pm

I'm getting some empirical contradictions to what I'm sure is good advice. I'm trying to avoid a wall of text with excessive detail, so I'll try to be concise.

I have fairway drivers, a 175 dx leopard and 165 champ leopard, and they go around 260'. I don't use them much because I can throw mids 240' with more accuracy; my drivers (dx eagle x and dx archangel) go 280', left and right finishing, respectively; and if I get the hyzer right, my champ aviar is good for over 200'. My home course is a par 3, so I'm ideally just driving and putting. Bad drives require mids/long putts, but all leopard drives leave me too short to consider a birdie putt.

Here is why I'm currently hung up on weight. I tried to replace a worn dx archangel with a champ sidewinder 165g (entry plastic wear has been a nuisance), and at the same time, I recovered a lost champ valk 150g. If I throw the valk with some hyzer it flies well, but has a tendency to go way high (another issue I need to be concerned about) and/or not too far. The sidewinder even when thrown flat will fade sooner than desired (low s-curves work best to stay below the trees).
I am of the (potentially incorrect) assumption that the fastest disc that can be hyzer-flipped will yield greatest distance, and with the above example, it seemed the way to get over a speed 9 disc was to further decrease weight under 150g, and coincidentally, innova releases just that. I decided to go extreme with the most understable, fastest and lightest disc, and it almost worked. I did throw a personal best (and it finished dead-straight) after maybe 12 throws with the disc.

Its repeated (I'm not disputing this) that throwing putters and mids improves your form, but on a good day, my untrained eye doesn't see big problems with my mids and putters. When my drivers go up 50' high and stall, or finish way left, or turn hard right and roll 100' the wrong way, or fly well and land under 300' problems are apparent (and unidentified).

I regret that I have more opportunity to sit at a keyboard then to throw discs.

(wall of text avoidance fail :( )
Porsche320
Noob
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:43 am
Favorite Disc: Archangel

Re: ultra-light discs

Postby JR » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:00 am

Not a failed text at all :-D The key part is that you are suffering from the usual nose up tendencies in the throw and that is not the fault of the disc per se. While some discs are more sensitive to releasing the disc with the front higher than the rear it is the thrower that needs to change the mechanics of the throw. Weight of the disc ain't what needs to change at this time. It is your form and after you release the discs with front and rear of the disc at the same height from the ground the discs hold their speed way longer and you'll get a lot more distance. That brings in the glide and fade of the disc and the Leopard and the Sidewinder are great at fading so little and late that they maximize the glide. Increasing air time and the distance. I wouldn't buy new discs at this point to increase the difficulty of you progression as a thrower. A new disc would transform the difficulty of needing to change the form by doubling the difficulty by introducing unfamiliarity with the grip and the power and angles requirement of the new disc.

There are a lot of nose up threads. Two key parts are keeping the disc aligned but lower than the forearm bones and reaching back at the same height as the release. Keeping the nose down requires conscious hard pushing of the wrist down after the elbow has started to straighten. One trick to keep the hand down is to limp arm and hold the disc as loosely as possible while maintaining proper angles. That allows you to let the hand droop lower than hand shaking position. If your grip is solid that drops the front of the disc lower than the rear which is a bonus because it helps in combating the natural tendency of the wrist to rise as the wrist turns from bent back to going to straight. There is another way to use the wrist called the hyper spin which can avoid the wrist anatomy induced rising problem.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11439
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace


Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest