King Cobra and Super Stingray

[colombo117]

I took the Super Stingray out for a round at Renaissance today and I was very, very impressed with it. It is a very controllable disc with a bit more glide than a roc and more high speed turn, of course. It only took a few throws to get comfortable with it. Initially, it was more stable than I was expecting (considering the stingray moniker). What is does very, very well is a flat shot that turns right and then hyzers back left (RHBH) or a slight hyzer flip to flat with a VERY straight finish. I picked mine up after watching a local pro throw it about 330 on a beautiful hyzerflip line into the wind. Probably the best shot of the day with it was a high flat hyzer on hole 9 at Renaissance that turned slightly and finished perfectly straight. It was three feet from the basket on a hole that I usually have a hard time getting a roc to (hole plays about 300'). The shots this disc is capable of are exactly what I have been missing by not having a comet in the bag (minus the crazy long anhyzers which I haven't tried much yet). Out of the box it can be thrown with a bit of hyzer and go perfectly straight up to about 300'. For clarification, my max D is around 400' and I usually max my rocs on about 275' holes.

Nice review whiz. You and I have about the same distance. I need to pick one of these new stingrays up.

[JR]

I took the Super Stingray out for a round at Renaissance today and I was very, very impressed with it. It is a very controllable disc with a bit more glide than a roc and more high speed turn, of course. It only took a few throws to get comfortable with it. Initially, it was more stable than I was expecting (considering the stingray moniker). What is does very, very well is a flat shot that turns right and then hyzers back left (RHBH) or a slight hyzer flip to flat with a VERY straight finish. I picked mine up after watching a local pro throw it about 330 on a beautiful hyzerflip line into the wind. Probably the best shot of the day with it was a high flat hyzer on hole 9 at Renaissance that turned slightly and finished perfectly straight. It was three feet from the basket on a hole that I usually have a hard time getting a roc to (hole plays about 300'). The shots this disc is capable of are exactly what I have been missing by not having a comet in the bag (minus the crazy long anhyzers which I haven't tried much yet). Out of the box it can be thrown with a bit of hyzer and go perfectly straight up to about 300'. For clarification, my max D is around 400' and I usually max my rocs on about 275' holes.

Nice review whiz. You and I have about the same distance. I need to pick one of these new stingrays up.

Yeah nice costing me money. I planned to not get the Super Stingray based on initial comments and you had to pique my interest so i'm poorer now. So the Coyote hoarding was not only added by the King Cobra now.

[kern9787]

Are the king cobras just a champ ontario cobra? Whats the difference between these and the dx stamped champ ontario cobras? Just the flat top?

Anybody?

[EL-KABONG!]

Mr Kern:
The Champ Ontario Cobras (older completely flat tops) are roughly the same stability as the new (proshop dx stamp, CFR and King) Champ Cobras (with slightly domey tops)..
The flat old ones are faster, hold a low line a bit easier and are a little more workable (but most of mine are at least a little seasoned too)
I also think the flats go a fair bit farther (because faster with nearly same glide).

All in all, new champs are a good repop and have nearly the same flight. When they break in, they should be even closer.

Sorry for all the parentheses.

[JR]

The King Cobra i just threw for a few times has a sharp flash. I had trouble keeping posture in the waist which i suspected after gym targeting that area hard yesterday evening. So it is very preliminary. Poor traction, jacket etc. Seems to be on the cusp of turning or not with the throws i got with a fade that can pull out of mild annies. Fairly good glide even hyzered. Not the longest mid but not too far behind. Not a bad disc. Like a Coyote with more LSS. Don't know what happens after the flash is gone.

The Super Stingray is sensitive to OAT. With the posture troubles and occasional arm breaking low OAT i'm no sure about the HSS. Some tosses with two fingers didn't flip from flat. Power grip snaps less for me and then the disc can turn at full power for a few degrees and at a little pulled power won't. It all could be from wrist rolls too. I had too few tosses to say for sure what goes on here. Around similar glide to the King Cobra but the fade is a hair smaller. You don't need to throw it that high to have it fade.

Both of those are slippery when wet.

[Fightingthetide]

Any C and D MD2 throwers out there able to compare? I'm thinking I might try these out if they don't ever make flat, gummy C MD2's again.

EDIT - I saw a few pages back that FrankD compared the King Cobra to an MD2, but it seemed a little inconclusive. I would love more thoughts. I'm not in the market right now, just thinking ahead.

[JR]

I haven't thrown a flat gummy C MD2. I have an opaque hard moderately domed one. I don't think it was my power that made the King Cobra 180 turn on the occasions it did turn. It didn't turn each time. The King Cobra ain't terribly different in speed at least for the first half of the flight but it glides better. I haven't done a side by side comparison but the distances can't be too dissimilar. With the sucky conditions and throwing from a different place i can't say which is longer at least yet. The King Cobra (KC hehe) keeps height better when hyzered. KC is flat almost fully so it is easy to grip.

[JHern]

I've thrown both of these, from the Final 9 lot. Depending on how you throw, they might or might not be interesting.

Super Stingray: One of my buddies throws mid-ranges with more than a bit of OAT, and gets a nice continuous turn from the Super Stingray, a very impressive flight, like described above. For me it flew fairly straight, and has decent glide. I think I could learn to control it, and throw it well.

King Cobra: Feels pretty beefy in the hand compared to the older Cobras I am used to. But for me, it flies kind of like a Buzzz with a bit of fade and less glide. Actually, it did penetrate forward quite a lot while fading, so that could be useful.

Over all, neither of these discs are in the same league as the Buzzz or SP Aftershock. Innova thought they could re-invigorate their mid-range line-up with slight mold tweaks on the cheap, but I think they're going to need to go further than that, and bust out an investment in completely new molds if they want to remain competitive. Either that, or they need to re-think/re-tool the Roc, and figure out what in the hell a Roc is, in the first place (among the hundreds of different versions that are called "Roc").

[MR. WICK]

I've thrown both of these, from the Final 9 lot. Depending on how you throw, they might or might not be interesting.

Super Stingray: One of my buddies throws mid-ranges with more than a bit of OAT, and gets a nice continuous turn from the Super Stingray, a very impressive flight, like described above. For me it flew fairly straight, and has decent glide. I think I could learn to control it, and throw it well.

King Cobra: Feels pretty beefy in the hand compared to the older Cobras I am used to. But for me, it flies kind of like a Buzzz with a bit of fade and less glide. Actually, it did penetrate forward quite a lot while fading, so that could be useful.

Over all, neither of these discs are in the same league as the Buzzz or SP Aftershock. Innova thought they could re-invigorate their mid-range line-up with slight mold tweaks on the cheap, but I think they're going to need to go further than that, and bust out an investment in completely new molds if they want to remain competitive. Either that, or they need to re-think/re-tool the Roc, and figure out what in the hell a Roc is, in the first place (among the hundreds of different versions that are called "Roc").

I disagree on the King cobra (haven't thrown the stingrays).....I actually dumped my z buzzes for them because I can get easier distance from the king cobra, about 15 feet more for me with more glide on the shot, significantly more if it's a down hill shot. They stay in the air forever. Could just be a variation from disc to disc though, mine are from the production run of them. They take a very similar flight path to the buzzz, just a bit longer. I felt you could also work a line better with the K.C. and flex them back some if you need to.

[JHern]

...I disagree...I can get easier distance from the king cobra...They stay in the air forever...a bit longer.

I agree that the KC has good forward penetration, but I'm not throwing mid-range discs for distance, rather for control and accuracy.

I felt you could also work a line better with the K.C. and flex them back some if you need to.

Agreed, I think this is a good argument for the KC. But I still think the SP Aftershock is way better in this category.

Also, I should say that the SS and KC that I threw were pretty domey. In general, I don't like domey-ness in a mid-range disc, but Innova has been managing to produce a lot like that lately. My other mids are either severely flat (Buzzz) or mostly flat (SP Aftershock).

[CloudySkyJedi]

I actually like them both. i got a 176 King Cobra and a 176 Super Stingray. (176-177 is my preferred midrange weight) The thing that I like most about them is that once they reach that all important cruising speed they hang in the air noticeably longer than roc, buzzz, whatever you want to compare them with, etc.

King Cobra is a lesser fading wasp or a more fading buzzz without the high speed turn. But longer than both.
Super Stingray is freakishly straight. 300' line drive w/slight hyzer release = no more that 5 feet L-R movement the entire flight. Can anyone say tunnel shot?

[Trey133]

So after whiz gave his review and someone asked md2 throwers to take a look at the super stingray for comparisons I decided to give one a go.

Initial thoughts -
Brand new this disc has ability to hold hyzer at below 70% power even in a little wind. It has great glide and moves through the air at the same pace as a roc I would say. Thrown flat, it likes to ride straight with little left to right movement at roughly 80% power. Relatively flat fade at the end of the flight, the disc just doesn't fall out of the air very fast at all. Controlled anhyzers are some of my worst shots (I was raised on floppy rocs so dumping a floppy roc used to always be my version of an anhyzer) however the stingray liked to hold the line well. It's not like a comet in that it's just a point and shoot disc going any direction you put it in, however it is pretty easy to direct.

Comparison with a new md2 (old usdgc mold)
The md2 is more stable from the get go of course. Throwers who like to pop their disc with a little bit of hyzer will probably prefer the stingray. The md2 has a faster cruising speed and requires a bit more spin/pop to get to the glide zone. Md2 didn't have as much glide, but IMO its due to the stability bringing it out of he air during the latter portion of its flight.

Comparisons with my beat md2 (usdgc mold)
My beat Md2 is a hyzer flipper. Popped hard it stands up, does a little left to right dance and then fades appropriately. I still haven't beat one in to a consistent turnover (although I don't have my hands on any d lines). This mimics the stingray, however requires more speed to get similar results. Glide wise I feel my more used md2 just never wants to come out of the air and this is on par with the stingray.

While I haven't beat in the stingray at all, I have become more accustomed to the md2s preferred throw, fast and flat. While I still have some hyzer flip mentality throwing my old beat rocs, I feel this is the mentality to have when working the stingray (especially when it starts seasoning I think). While the md2 is more buzzz like in nature, I think the stingray is a bit more comet like in nature.


Aaaaaand that's that.

[Booter]

uli was throwin a super ray this past weekend and said he liked it. not so much the kc though. im not a fan of either,probably because theyre not flat and im used to buzzzs.

[Fightingthetide]

Sounds like the Super Stingray pairs well with a Buzzz or (good) MD2, or maybe the KC if you like it. For the SS, what weights are you guys throwing? I'm not throwing as far as Whiz or Trey, so I'm wondering if I should go a few grams lighter than my other mids.

[Trey133]

I'm throwing a chartreuse 179 gram one that is semi flat